The Paradox of Political Thrift

By Will Beaman

Democratic endorsement politics around Zohran Mamdani continue to bend in ways that feel at once familiar and strange. A spokesman for House Speaker Hakeem Jeffries brushed off Senator Chris Van Hollen’s endorsement with a Trumpian dismissal—“Chris Van Who?” Meanwhile, Governor Kathy Hochul published an endorsement in the New York Times, listing disagreements with Mamdani before endorsing him anyway. On The Rachel Maddow Show, Kamala Harris endorsed “the Democrat in the race” without naming Mamdani, and then pivoted to other contests.

These are not the same kind of gesture. I stay with these moments because they carry a larger question: how do gestures get taken up—shutting rooms down, or opening them—when the stakes are fiscal and political at once? Jeffries’s move is not an endorsement with qualification; it is the refusal of endorsement as such. It puts allies in deliberately vulnerable positions to flip some of them into collaborators with a loyalty regime. The result is an anemic, fractured coalition—a few battered yes-people, and almost no one else. The core misread is methodological, not personal: under this anti-democratic habit of leadership, responsibility to a coalition—with its conditions, accountabilities, and shared decision paths—registers as disloyalty. Conditional support is treated as a threat to hierarchy rather than a way to coordinate. A gesture that could organize co-governance is read as an attempt at sabotage. And here the comparison turns uncanny: collaboration with an unaccountable party apparatus works the same way as the Trump regime—leaders manufacture precarity to flip partners into collaborators, preserving access for some while starving everyone else. 

Hochul and Harris are doing something else. Yes, their endorsements are calculative and cynical. At the same time, they provide a repeatable model for the Democratic coalition to mobilize on some basis other than Trumpian loyalty. Both are improvising here, but their improvisations are conditioned by a shifting field of shared playbooks within the coalition. First, the usual patterns of withholding that Jeffries and Schumer tried to deploy against Mamdani failed to break his campaign’s spine of cross-endorsements and shared priorities. And crucially, warm endorsements from NYC Comptroller Brad Lander and Sen. Elizabeth Warren—leaders who were in tension with the Sanders campaign in 2020—offered a frame Hochul and Harris could follow: name the differences and endorse anyway. In practice, that creates promises—concrete commitments others can attach their work to. If either leader later reverts to withholding or loyalty tests, the channel they opened will close quickly; if they carry the tension, the partnership becomes sturdier. Because these invitations run across difference—across factions, geographies, and idioms—the mobilization they enable routinely outscales what any single actor’s allegedly scarce political capital can buy from loyalists or a cult of true believers

The Paradox of Political Thrift

In the early years of the Great Depression, economist John Maynard Keynes diagnosed what he called the paradox of thrift. The more that private investors tried to save money by withholding investment, the more impoverished everyone became—and the more dire their calculations for what awaited them on the other side if they did invest. Caution, when universalized, deepened the crisis it meant to avert. Keynes is remembered as a proponent of “deficit spending” in emergencies. The real man was more complicated, but the intuition is simple: what looks like prudence from an individual’s balance sheet can become ruinous in aggregate. Public investment, viewed as deficit spending from the standpoint of the cautious investor, was in fact surplus creation for the public as a whole. From the macro perspective, savings were not depleted but provisioned by spending.

Call the present moment of democratic weakness and collaboration a paradox of political thrift. The hoarding of endorsements—treated as a form of scarce political capital rather than a renewable public surplus—has steadily weakened the immune system of democratic politics. Party leaders mistake coordination for power, conditional support for risk, and coalition itself for debt. These are the political implications of austerity thinking. It recasts the party’s health as a matter of personal thrift: save your endorsements, save your reputation, spend only on the safe bet. The result, as Keynes would have predicted, is contraction. Each act of withholding tightens the circle until only the most loyal remain, and loyalty replaces shared responsibility as an inflexible medium of governance.

The alternative is not reckless spending but collective investment—deficit spending from the point of view of party elites, surplus creation from the point of view of the coalition. Endorsements, acknowledgments, and small public acts of co-governance are the political analogs of public investment: they create openings for new work to begin. They are promises, not withdrawals. Where austerity politics hoard recognition, coalition politics extend it; where machine politics imagines scarce political capital, the coalition practices renewable credit.

Debt or Credit?

Political gestures work this way: not as the disclosure of hidden loyalties, but as reversible stagecraft. In past writings, I have referred to the famous drawing that looks like a duck or a rabbit. That reversibility is not unusual or a trick. It is how coalitions move—how people who do not agree on everything still act together. We often read polyvalence as insincerity, or worse, as a dog whistle. Dog whistles exist; they are the manipulative, irresponsible form of polyvalence. But polyvalence itself is an ordinary and even essential feature of public life.

With that in view, consider two ways of reading. The dialectical tradition, following Marx, registers multiplicity as contradiction and seeks transformation by staging contradiction as untenable. A dialogic reading (in reference to the literary theorist Mikhail Bakhtin) mediates multiplicity without synthesis so that multiple voices remain usable at once. The dialectical tradition sharpens opposition to achieve transformation; the dialogic tradition sustains tension as a productive reversibility that enables coordination. Read dialogically, the gestures of Hochul and Harris are reversible in their meaning—both hedge and partnership. Our task is to set up the board for partnership.

This reversibility move applies to public finance. As Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) reminds us, the very existence of money means that an issuer somewhere is in a deficit position equal to the money that exists. But the same accounts can be read forward as capacity, if we think from the perspective of the world. What is moralized as debt functions as credit: it comes from nowhere and it authorizes collective endeavors. There is no essence of money to be revealed. To borrow another term from Bakhtin, debt or credit—duck or rabbit—is “unfinalizable” because it lives in dialogue.

Holding both readings in view is not an equivocation. It is a maneuver that widens the field of action so that the debt reading can be reconstructed as credit—from backward-looking guilt to forward-looking capacity.

Two theoretical inheritances pull us toward the debt reading. First, a dialectical reflex—when generalized to money and obligation—reduces money to capital and commodity production. In that frame, credit is read as an exploitative claim on future labor that keeps people ensnared in commodity production—in short, credit is read as debt. Politics becomes a long accounting of labor in service to capital rather than shared work in and for one’s community.

A second inheritance comes from what might be called philosophies of difference, from Nietzsche to post-structuralism. Here, notions of obligation and responsibility emerge from the retroactive moralization of some real or perceived injury and persist as regimes of control. Visibility and recognition amount to categorization and surveillance. It is a powerful way to see domination, but it detains the present in a fabricated past of sin and debt with no possibility of repair at any sort of scale.

The dialogic course moves differently. It neither compresses contradiction into a single resolving line nor dissolves it into fragments. It holds tension so people who disagree can still act together. Money is read forward as capacity rather than backward as guilt. Interpreted from a dialectical horizon, this may look like a retreat from conflict or synthesis. It is not. For philosophies of difference, this may look like an attempt to detain immanent generativity in a top-down idiom of capacity. It is not. Reading money as credit rather than debt reorients obligation from forced detention in the past to newly visible capacities and responsibilities that organize repair in the present.

The Politics of Receivability

In the most conventional explanations of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), money is considered receivable because the state requires it for taxes, fees, and other obligations—by threat of force. Historical accounts of this happening in colonial contexts appear to corroborate Nietzsche’s account of money as the arbitrary imposition of debt through violence. But publics do not only take up money (or any other public symbol or gesture) because they are threatened with violence; they also do so because they can coordinate their lives with them.

In that broader sense, ‘receivability’ names how acts are staged so they can be taken up across disagreement and still carried forward. The “we differ, but I still endorse” formulation leaves the difference in place while delivering partnership—not unity by erasure, but coordination through what many can accept and act on together.

What matters is not only that reversibility exists, but that the range of live readings can shift. The hedged endorsement that might once have landed as cynicism alone now works as a coordinating gesture. The mocking dismissal that might once have been shrugged off now registers as sabotage. These are not accidents of personality; they mark a change in what the coalition can take up. I call this a credit event—not a literal event, but a shift in reading practice that reorganizes time: it rereads the archive, widens what counts as usable partnership now, and opens near-future moves. 

The Archive Reopened (2008–Present)

Read through this dialogic framework, today’s Democratic endorsement politics permits us to reread the last two decades as rehearsals for two political tendencies: one that engages leaders in accountable coordination, and another that yearns for leaders who model exemption from accountability.

Looking back to 2008, we can see that Barack Obama’s coalition brought together multiple ideals of democratic renewal. For those politically marginalized in the Bush and Clinton years that Obama brought into the fold, the campaign promised a more democratic and inclusive relationship between politicians and their base. For many white supporters anxious about their position and identity amid global economic changes, the campaign offered a script of redemption and innocence through post-racial politics. At the same time, Obama’s operation prototyped a digital organizing hub that choreographed small-dollar giving alongside small-labor contributions—house parties, phone banks, canvasses—staging the campaign as a collective production that would persist in different forms and venues for years. These were not just fundraising tools, but early formats of distributed coordination.

The public backlash to the Great Financial Crisis and the administration’s handling was fractured between these voices inside the coalition. The small-d democratic wing of the Obama coalition concerned with reform responded to disillusionment with demands for accountability. Occupy Wall Street brought “the 99%” thrown under the bus for financial elites out in public to testify to their existence. Black Lives Matter held the Democratic Party accountable for its continued investment in mass incarceration, calling on politicians to say the names of Black victims of police violence who are normally rendered nameless through rituals of criminalization. Emerging campaign choreographies of time and effort were repurposed to serve movement infrastructures of accountability and care.

At the same time, the politics of white innocence and colorblind redemption that brought many into the Obama camp broke down with the destruction of its longest standing symbol: homeownership. Libertarian movements like the Tea Party and spectacles like Cliven Bundy’s 2014 armed showdown with the federal government rejected social responsibility as government overreach on behalf of a parasitic underclass. Libertarians were less concerned with the daily government overreach enacted through police violence, redeeming “blue lives” as a protected class to be showered with resources and shielded from accountability. Outrage news cycles, list-building, and direct-response fundraising fused into a grievance-validating infrastructure—less about coordinated volunteer labor, more about converting outrage into pledges of loyalty and cash on demand.

The 2016 Democratic primary surfaced these dynamics inside the Democratic coalition for the first time post-Obama. What was expected to be a coronation for Hillary Clinton became a surprisingly competitive contest with Bernie Sanders, whom Clinton and her backers cast as disloyal to the party—missing that his base viewed that stance as a virtue. As with Obama’s 2008 outsider bid against Clinton, the Sanders campaign carried both an inversion of Clinton’s inside/outside loyalty politics—flipped but not deconstructed—and an impulse toward co-governance and accountability. When Black Lives Matter organizers disrupted campaign events, the Sanders operation was reluctant to move beyond a colorblind, class-reductionist posture. Some Sanders supporters questioned why he was being critiqued at all when Clinton’s “tough on crime” record was so much worse for BLM’s priorities. Meanwhile, the campaign’s small-dollar model and mass volunteer phone/text banks widened the sense that a campaign could run entirely on recurring public contributions—money and labor—pledged and renewed like a wartime bond drive. And beneath these campaign practices, the organizations that emerged in its wake—Our Revolution, Justice Democrats, the Democratic Socialists of America, and the Sunrise Movement—became contested laboratories for coalition politics. From this mosaic, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and later Zohran Mamdani emerged.

The Clinton campaign, for its part, adopted BLM’s moral vocabulary as a ritual of white exculpation—direct identification with Black Americans in place of accountable commitments. “We face a complex set of political challenges,” Hillary Clinton tweeted in February 2016. “They’re intersectional, reinforcing, & we’ve got to take them all on.” Sensing this was not working, Barack Obama told the Congressional Black Caucus gala in September 2016 that it would be a “personal insult” if Black voters failed to turn out for Clinton. In the end, one-sided appeals to loyalty did not work. Depressed Black turnout proved instrumental not only to Sanders’s loss in the primary but to Clinton’s loss in the general.

Trump’s 2016 campaign recognized the increasing centrality of innocence, exceptionalism and grievance to the Republican base. The campaign hijacked existing forms of horse-race punditry, crisis reporting in media and learned helplessness among politicians in the face of sublime economic forces to flip the usual rituals of emotional blackmail and crisis staging used to discipline party fringes into pageants of humiliation and coerced loyalty. The result was the institutionalization—through Trump—of a right wing social project to dispense permission and innocence to supporters in return for their loyalty and identification, shored up by conspiracy theories and a constant churn of internal enemies to humiliate. Now, in Trump’s second term, old habits of neoliberal governance fully co-opted to stage routine fiscal chokepoints around “finding the money” as mob-style shakedowns designed to flip liberal institutions into servile collaborators. 

Biden’s 2020 campaign reactivated the language of democratic renewal, promising to “restore the soul of America” and inviting citizens to see themselves as participants in collective repair. Yet the familiar pattern returned: once in office, the administration treated accountability as disloyalty. Progressive organizers and digital creators who had been courted as partners were cut off when they criticized Gaza policy, climate inaction, or the decision to seek a second term. Biden’s refusal to hold Trump accountable for January 6 and his enthusiastic support for the genocide in Palestine against cries and pleas from Democratic voters collapsed whatever high ground that administration had into a loyalty cult without a following.

With the collapse of any hope for accountability, campy irony emerged as an affective genre for sustaining investment in Democratic politics. “Dark Brandon” stylized the gap between the real Biden and the one voters needed—an ironic fantasy of competence and backbone conjured by the coalition itself. It was not a cult of personality but a collective experiment in franchising charisma—a conditional line of credit that Biden misread as unconditional devotion. The same misreading repeated with Kamala Harris’s “brat summer,” when lighthearted camp energy from online publics was read as uncritical fandom instead of a playful rehearsal of participation and possibility—redeemable at the polls only through accountable politics. Harris ignored the Uncommitted campaign, reading its demands for a seat at the table as disloyalty. Why should Harris be held accountable for her position on Gaza, party loyalists asked, when Trump is so much worse? From this perspective, “Brat Summer” and the Uncommitted campaign were two faces of the same durable structure: a coalition reclaiming and regulating its political investment in franchised form, with conditions and obligations extended to authority figures. 

All of this brings us to the Mamdani moment, in the eye of a national authoritarian takeover. Where other Democratic leaders mistook provisional star power for personal greatness, Mamdani has treated it as a platform for shared authorship. His campaign’s citywide #ZcavengerHunt and ongoing Zetro Card do more than “energize”—they choreograph specific commitments with dates, thresholds, and roles, turning attention into work others can pick up. The games make visible what earlier cycles only hinted at: affect, credit, and coordination can be provisioned locally; recognition is not a prize but a relay. Participation comes with responsibilities leaders must meet, and when they do, the channel widens. Read this way, the campaign has begun to map a different circuit from Trumpism’s pageants of loyalty and punishment—a coalition loop that converts coalition demands into campaign promises, promises kept into usable capacity, and spent capacity into a renewed franchise on larger terms. These habits already function like fiscal authority franchised from the middle—authority that works because publics have rehearsed in advance how to receive, carry, retire, and re-issue it.

Fiscal Insurgency and the New Finance Franchise

Viewed in hindsight, these democratic rehearsals of small-dollar and small-labor capacity can be read as fiscal policy with a different and complementary issuance structure—a new finance franchise. The finance franchise was coined by legal theorists Robert Hockett and Saule Omarova, to describe the public–private architecture of modern money. In their account, chartered banks and licensed financial institutions operate as state franchises of monetary authority. Like a restaurant franchisee carrying a parent brand’s guarantees, banks extend the public’s credit under license. The upshot is simple, but radical in its implication: Every bank loan is a public issuance routed through regulated (even under the guise of deregulation) agents—an institutional foundation that grounds Modern Monetary Theory’s claim that all money is public and boundless before it is private and scarce.

The theoretical framework and reconstructed history developed here points to a new finance franchise with an expanded view of causality and new horizons of possibility. It lives not in sovereign power, but in a rehearsed public capacity extended to political leaders: a franchised authority to mobilize a coalition for assigned roles and responsibilities, renewed and enlarged periodically with demonstrations of courage and accountability. Like the legal finance franchise, it creates credit ex nihilo—not by ‘finding the money’ but by staging credible promises and work to match. Unlike legal sovereignty, however, it does not rest on an originary act of exception that renders money as debt. Sovereignty appears, like debt, as a gloss: a retrospective claim laid over authority that is, in practice, dependent, coordinative, and provisioned in common.

In this expanded sense, the finance franchise is polyvocal and contested. Every contribution, canvass shift, or meme drive carries a small piece of public capacity, rehearsed in advance of formal institutions. Where traditional fiscal policy moves through budgets and appropriations, these unofficial circuits move through commitment and follow-through. And there are multiple formats that do not necessarily align: when Democratic leaders read loyalty politics into franchised accountability (as with Jeffries’s refusal to endorse, or with Biden/Harris treating activism as disloyalty), the channel stalls. When leaders read conditional solidarity into those same formats (as with Hochul’s “we differ, I endorse” and Uncommitted’s posted conditions), the channel opens. The difference is more substantial than tone—it is the whole format. 

These coalition habits—small-dollar subscriptions, shared volunteer work, conditional endorsements—already coordinate fiscal capacity from the middle. The task now is to formalize and extend them.

Blue Bonds and Solidarity Bond Drives

One logical extension of the new finance franchise is what Money on the Left has called Blue Bonds. Blue Bonds refers to ordinary municipal bonds, framed politically as credit to coordinate public life despite Trump’s attempts to sabotage it rather than debt held by the private sector. A progressive city comptroller could invest public pensions in Blue Bonds, undoing the early neoliberal gesture that tied them to Wall Street. Whether bonds are treated as the debt duck or the credit rabbit is a live political question. A post-Trump government could simply retire the bonds at an appropriate time or convert them to other kinds of public assets—because they would have served their actual purpose: keeping democracy funded and public employment steady, not enriching the private sector. And in the meantime, a national bond drive for democracy would stabilize Blue Bonds for years to come.

The popular enthusiasm for small-dollar giving that defined the Sanders and Warren campaigns, and that continues to sustain countless local initiatives through ActBlue, already points in this direction. The same public that sustains campaigns with recurring small dollars is well-positioned to sustain bond drives that keep services running when federal support is sabotaged. When supporters contribute to causes that act visibly and accountably, they are not merely donating—they are underwriting capacity. Blue Bonds would formalize that same logic as democratic fiscal infrastructure. They would transform sporadic enthusiasm into lasting commitment, turning the habits of coalition politics into enduring instruments of public credit. A solidarity bond drive makes that commitment legible: it tells the story of how communities can fund their own continuities when national politics stalls.

Complementary Currencies and Swap Lines

Locating the finance franchise in the rehearsed capacities of our civil society makes informal circuits of public provision visible everywhere. Complementary currencies are a more structured format that puts these circuits in dialogue with official fiscal circuits more broadly, foregrounding receivability—where are credits usable and for what?—as a live political question. Money on the Left has written at length about expanding the Zetro Card, university-issued “Unis”, and all manner of coalition credits for Democratic Socialists of America and other organizations. To the extent that credits can be receivable for local taxes (as with progressive local governments), basic goods and services (as with municipal vendors and private businesses) or pathways to institutional opportunities and responsibilities (as with coalition organizations), the coordinative capacity of that fiscal circuit is expanded. 

The governing principle of complementary currency is thus not separateness from the dollar, but what high finance calls “swap lines”—practices of conversion and receivability between fiscal circuits that preserve their distinctness while enabling coordination at scale. Just as central banks maintain swap lines to stabilize currencies without forcing them into uniformity, coalitions can establish all kinds of reciprocal arrangements between campaigns, unions, schools, clinics, and local governments. Such arrangements build on the same pluralism that defines a healthy democratic coalition—diverse idioms and responsibilities held together by mutual recognition rather than a single rule. They make visible a plural fiscal landscape and provide a language for the coordination that we practice every day.

Democratic Public Finance: A Radical Vision for Mamdani’s New York City

This document elaborates an emerging economic paradigm that is already latent in Zohran Mamdani’s plans and practices. The paradigm, which we call Democratic Public Finance (DPF), reframes money as an inexhaustible and malleable public institution. According to DPF, money is public credit, a capacious tool for mobilizing everyone’s capacities to meet our needs and build a desirable future. Contrary to economic orthodoxy, this paradigm redefines politics as the process of coordinating our abundant human and material resources within ecological limits, rather than exploitative competition for scarce funds. DPF is the process of making collective capacities visible, organizing them democratically, and enabling us to care for each other. Understood in this way, DPF discloses previously invisible possibilities for communal well-being and denaturalizes the impoverished suppositions that legitimize fiscal obstruction by establishment liberals, conservatives, and right-wing demagogues alike.

Mamdani has already displayed unparalleled political expertise in debunking myths about public spending. We build on this expertise, equipping the mayoralty with tools to openly and comprehensively challenge what we call Neoliberal Public Finance (NPF). NPF is an ideology and governance practice built on the false premise that money is a scarce private resource. NPF stages politics as a zero-sum game, assuming that communities can only deploy their capacities if they acquire money from taxpayers and bondholders. Undermining robust fiscal programs, NPF devalues extant collective capacities and obscures New York City’s potentials. The result not only validates ongoing neoliberal austerity, but also enables the right-wing destruction of public services and the expulsion of vulnerable persons from the country and its institutions. Ultimately, NPF serves as a consistent excuse for inaction, leaving genuine democratic projects vulnerable to fiscal sabotage.

In what follows, we outline four strategies for the Mamdani mayoralty to consider. All four strategies are grounded in current proposals advanced by the Mamdani team. Each strategy is designed to advance inclusive democratic projects, while undermining the political legitimacy of manufactured crises perpetuated by establishment Democrats and the Trump administration:

1. Reframing Debt and Taxation: Reframes current taxation and debt limits as not only arbitrary, but also as irresponsible limits on what we can do for our communities. The aim is to publicly explain and contest current rules about municipal debt and taxation, highlighting how the rhetoric of money scarcity devalues workers’ actual and potential contributions.

2. Mobilizing People Differently: Expands the public sector by using multiple forms of credit, particularly within the public school system, to create a culture of public service and a pipeline to a citywide Job Guarantee program.

3. Creating Public Banking and Payments Infrastructure: Establishes municipal-level public banking and a “Public Venmo” to democratize finance, serve the unbanked, and build a resilient local economy independent of Wall Street and insulated from federal political volatility.

4. Challenging Deep Legal Structures: Commences a long-term contestation of foundational laws at the municipal, state, and federal levels (e.g., balanced budget amendments), which legally enforce NPF’s austerity logic.

The document concludes with a bibliography, which provides the theoretical and historical foundations for the principles of DPF outlined in this proposal.

* See here for a PDF version of this document.

Across the political spectrum, most people still believe that the U.S. economy is governed by immutable laws of supply and demand. On this logic, unemployment, rising rents, or scarcity of public goods are natural outcomes, not political choices. This market-centric worldview gives rise to misdiagnoses of social problems. Worse, it tends to validate pathological solutions that do far more harm than good. Take the oft-repeated notion that deporting migrants will “free up” jobs and homes. Such ideas not only justify ongoing state violence; they also mask the real challenge at issue: overcoming our collective misunderstanding of public finance so that we can openly care for our communities and planet.

The present text argues that a robust response to the ills of market ideology requires cultivating shared knowledge about the political constitution of money. When communities grasp money as a contestable form of collective organization, large-scale public jobs and housing programs become eminently possible. Once this knowledge is widely shared, “illegal migration” no longer appears as a problem. Responding to establishment handwringing and right-wing cruelty becomes an opportunity to build a democratic and inclusive future.

This document argues that building a just future requires shifting from the reigning ideology of Neoliberal Public Finance (NPF) to Democratic Public Finance (DPF). NPF constrains democratic possibilities by perpetuating the idea that money is always private, uncontrollable, and scarce. If money is scarce, so too are housing or jobs. NPF seems natural and almost unassailable, both as law and as a mode of framing collective life. It underwrites the neoliberal habit of acquiescence, which trains politicians and publics to treat fiscal sabotage as an impersonal event to be managed, not contested.

DPF, by contrast, asserts that money is an unlimited and disputable public good which can always be reorganized to serve people and the environment. For DPF, money is an inexhaustible institution, involving an always-ongoing and deeply public process through which societies mobilize their capacities and create their future. Imagine a city where public banks extend zero-interest credit to retrofit housing, or where a Job Guarantee program is financed through democratic credit issuance. This is the vision of DPF: not scarcity, but capacity; not limits, but collective potential.

A centuries-old tradition of legal and economic knowledge stands ready to support DPF: the credit theory of money. The credit theory of money demonstrates that when a governing institution issues or spends money, it credits the receiver, and records it as a debit in its books. Later, money can return to the issuer in payment of fines, dues, taxes, or other payments. When it does, the issuer credits itself and erases the debit. After its creation and before its return to the issuer and eventual erasure, money can mediate activities among money users. This is the crux of the credit theory: Money is the process of its creation, transmission, and final deletion. The credit theory of money could also be called the “monetary theory of credit” because it emphasizes that money is credit and credit, money. Therefore, this document will use “money” and “credit” interchangeably.

If money is the ongoing process of issuing and deleting credits, it cannot be solely understood as an inert quantity that reflects past accomplishments. Money cannot be something we need to hoard to create a livable future. And it certainly cannot be scarce unless we make it so. Money is, instead, the world-making act of crediting those actors who construct the future.

As a crediting operation, money involves record keeping: the issuer notes credits on a ledger (analog or digital); it can also issue tokens such as coins or banknotes that have served as “distributed ledgers” for millennia. The form money takes is secondary. No technological innovation can displace its essence, even as it constitutively shapes its operations and scope. All money is credit; all money, always, is an operation where crediting someone’s balance sheet means recording a debit on someone else’s. All money is orchestrated by a public entity situated at the center of a collectivity. In the United States and its predecessor polities, a wide range of actors, including colonies, states, and the federal government, but also municipalities and commercial entities such as banks, have operated ledgers, activating the capacities of millions of people. The economic situation in which we find ourselves currently—defined by myriad atrocities as well as capabilities—is the outcome of a long history of crediting operations.

These crediting operations never occur at random. All money, without exception, is a function of political design, as the legal scholar Christine Desan has pointed out. In everyday practice, some actors, but not others, are authorized to operate our crediting facilities, according to rules that govern for what purposes, and for whom, they can do so. How we answer the questions of monetary design is how the future takes shape. Thus DPF must name current rules, engage them, and propose avenues for democratic change. Just as exclusionary crediting patterns under the redlining scheme created a segregated housing sector, inclusive forms of money will make a just and inclusive world.

Readers of this document may recognize elements of DPF in Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), which has gained traction among progressive economists and challenged neoliberal assumptions about the federal budget. MMT rightly insists that the federal government, as a currency issuer, can never “run out” of money, and that many forms of human suffering—unemployment, lack of housing, and other unmet needs—result from artificial budget constraints. This document, however, presents Democratic Public Finance (DPF) as a broader political framework than MMT alone. Whereas MMT typically centers the federal government’s capacity to issue currency, DPF reframes all levels of collective life—federal, state, city—as potential sites of monetary transformation.

DPF builds on MMT’s insights but pushes further: it sees money not just as a federal tool but as a design system embedded in law and governance at every level. It asks how public credit can be mobilized even within existing constraints—and how those constraints themselves can be named, politicized, and changed.

Contrary to conventional treatments of MMT, which often focus on technical truths about sovereign currency issuance, DPF is a form of democratic participation. It becomes a way of seeing, naming, and expanding what is possible, not only fiscally, but also politically. At the city level, this means exploring how to expand crediting capacity through public banking, rethinking debt rules, and transforming public service employment, all as part of a broader struggle over the meaning and purpose of money itself.

First, DPF reframes collective life as an open-ended crediting process that occurs at all levels, including the municipal. DPF refuses to accept the premise of money scarcity, and always looks for creative ways of crediting those who need it most.

Second, DPF is a mode of knowing the world differently: It is the process of learning about our capacities, possibilities, and needs.

Third, DPF is the process of naming the current rules of monetary design while rejecting the neoliberal premises that underlie it. With this, DPF challenges their status as a hard limit and static constraint. To this end, DPF advances and enhances multiple crediting institutions to mobilize people.

A DPF-informed challenge to NPF’s money scarcity logic can deepen the transformative impact of Zohran Mamdani’s vision.

The Mamdani team already undermines NPF and has taken important steps toward DPF. When it denounces current debt rules as arbitrary, it challenges NPF. When it highlights the city’s vast and diverse resources—from public sector assets to workers’ capacities—it undermines NPF. When it creates a sense of collective possibilities and responsibility, it undermines NPF. When it frames prices as a multifaceted political problem grounded in law, it undermines NPF’s core tenet that prices can be an apolitical market outcome if the public sector does not “interfere.” When Mamdani highlights the city’s vast unmet needs, from housing and childcare to food, and proposes feasible solutions for making life affordable, it makes economic life legible as a changeable provisioning system. These highly popular challenges to neoliberal orthodoxy have validated and strengthened forms of collective knowledge that are uniquely suited for advancing DPF.

At present, Mamdani’s agenda challenges some features of NPF, such as its extension of municipality bond issuance to fund public housing. Rhetorically, however, he has not fully broken with NPF’s scarce money framing. This choice, of course, has a number of advantages. Above all, it enables Mamdani to focus on specific city projects and programs without introducing unfamiliar and potentially challenging ideas about public finance. That said, leaving NPF undisputed also has significant drawbacks. For such reasons, we urge the Mamdani mayoralty to go much further.

There are at least five reasons why leaving NPF largely intact damages Mamdani’s program for NYC. First, when we allow the appearance of money scarcity to persist, current human capacities and biophysical resources can appear secondary to money’s availability, and potentially redundant. For instance, unemployed people can appear as a burden to the public purse and a cost to deserving taxpayers, not a tragic instance of exclusion and lost capacity that could be mobilized by credit creation.

Second, when money can continue to appear scarce, there is a tendency to see politics as the process of groups vying for scarce public outlays, rather than a future-oriented democratic coordination of capacities for the common good. Thereby, NPF plays down people’s actual and potential contributions, creates fertile ground for exclusion, and distracts from a present that demands world-making.

Third, when money seems limited, taxpayers and bondholders can continue to present themselves as the center of political debate because we seem to depend on their money. It gives the voices of those who present themselves as taxpayers and bondholders special legitimacy as the alleged source of public financing, while of course disempowering everyone else. Instead of people who can presently claim certain assets, they are presented as the only geese that lay the golden eggs. They are those who ultimately pay. They are the pillars of the community on whose shoulders our collective welfare rests. Or, so we are told.

Fourth, leaving the assumption of money scarcity intact helps eclipse monetary design questions. Because money appears as a scarce quantity, not a political process of crediting and debiting, the rules that govern its issuance become less legible. This eclipsing shrinks the space of political possibilities because it becomes difficult to develop a widely shared language for public banking or a public payments system as a possibility within reach, just as urgent as freezing rents or expanding public childcare, and with potential effects that go beyond a single sector.

Fifth, when monetary capacity is regarded as a delimited resource, it induces political paralysis. Neoliberal ideology dictates that a democracy with tremendous organizational and productive capacity must nevertheless be held hostage by the veto power of private money holders. In countless scenarios, when talented organizers are ready, coalitional energy is real, and the democratic appetite for change is present, the dominant political imagination consistently stalls at the threshold of private investors. The assumption that only billionaires or suburban taxpayers can provision democracy has become so entrenched that it is easier to imagine acquiescing to authoritarianism than bypassing this veto.

In sum, NPF makes collective capacities less legible or appear redundant; it spells exclusion, enforces unjust hierarchies, and sabotages political action. NPF is an unjust past’s best bet to extend itself into the future, but DPF is here to say it has overstayed its welcome. If NPF says No, we can’t!, DPF asks What do we wish to accomplish together? DPF involves collective decision-making about how we want to live and work in community based on an accurate understanding of money as a world-making public institution.

This document sketches four areas through which NYC can maximally expand crediting operations to its residents as it engages current rules, mobilizes people’s capacities democratically, and builds empowering forms of economic knowledge. Each of these areas can stand on its own; together, they constitute a broad challenge to NPF. Individually, reframing each area can extend municipal crediting operations. If one of the areas for action falls short, then controversies about it nonetheless contribute to the overall goal of undermining NPF. DPF can still be advanced in the other areas. In addition, many of the anticipated gains are not easily reversed.

The core message is: Money is a malleable public institution we use so people can serve one another. This message must come through in practice, not as a doctrine but a reframing of politics that touches most areas of public life—a constant challenge to NPF. NPF must be addressed, not as a static limit or a hard constraint but a series of politically created chokepoints that currently limit what we can do for each other.

The remainder of this document outlines four strategic domains where DPF principles can be operationalized in NYC. Each area demonstrates how rethinking monetary design can unlock democratic possibilities and challenge the assumptions of NPF.

The four strategic areas we cover include:

  1. Reframing Debt Issuance and Taxation
  2. Mobilizing People Differently: Public Sector Expansion, the Public School System, and the Multiplicity of Credits
  3. Creating Public Banking and Payments Infrastructure
  4. Challenging the deep structure of neoliberal finance in municipal, state & federal law

The premise of this section is simple but robust: To advance DPF and deepen its challenge to NPF, Mamdani can reframe current taxation and debt limits as both arbitrary and irresponsible constraints. Mamdani can explain the current rules about municipal taxation and debt and emphasize how illusions of money scarcity devalue workers’ actual and potential contributions. Mamdani has much to gain, and little to lose, from connecting people’s capacities to the monetary chokepoints that are currently obstacles to mobilizing them fully.

This is the message: The rules of NPF prevent the city from democratically mobilizing people to accomplish urgent tasks. NPF hurts people who need support and limits democratic decision-making about the city’s priorities. It limits what we can do for each other. We have the people.  We have the needs. Let us cooperate and build: fast and free buses, affordable childcare, and public grocery stores. Do not sabotage our ambitions through NPF. Don’t be reckless.

This perspective also allows Mamdani to connect ICE (and other harmful public organizations) to the problem of collective provisioning. ICE takes away potentially useful people, who in turn become violence workers to deport people who are contributing in many ways and want to continue doing so. This is not only cruel; it also destroys important webs of social provisioning. Ours is the work of care against the work of violence. Ours is the work of creating future generations versus the work of destroying livelihoods, erasing contributions, and creating suffering. It is the call of the “manosphere” versus the call of care. The NPF budgetary chokepoint and ICE are similar: both represent a reckless sabotage of production and a foolish, uncaring disruption. Countering sabotage and destruction could include creating good job options for people who might consider becoming ICE agents.

The messaging about taxation could be modified along these lines: We presently have to tax the rich to mobilize our labor, but that does not take away from the fact that we are doing the work ourselves. Taxing the rich is good for democracy and necessary for keeping the city’s dollar balances up under current rules, but it ought not limit what we can achieve together. People’s capacities and needs are at the center of the political universe, not taxpayer’s bank accounts. When someone says, “Mamdani thinks there is a Santa,” we should respond with: “We are our own Santa.” When someone says, “By increasing taxes, you are chasing the goose that lays the gilded eggs,” the answer is: “We lay our own eggs.”

Bond issuance practices and messaging can also be modified in this spirit. For instance, the city government could organize bond drives at advantageous rates. It is reasonable to believe there would be subscribers far beyond NYC because of the city’s central place in the global political imaginary and its potential to become a model for transformative change. Many people who donate to blue campaigns might buy such bonds. Instead of donating to campaigns, people would be investing in city infrastructure, and the line between donations and bonds could become blurred. The message could be: We need bond drives, and we are grateful to subscribers who help us minimize pressure on the budget. At the same time, it is us who do the work, and it is us who coordinate our efforts. People’s capacities, skills, and resources precede the dollar balances created by bond sales. This is similar in spirit to war bond drives, even if the context and purpose is distinct: While public discourse valued subscribers, no one doubted who was really going to war. Bond issuance coupled with political messaging has the further advantage of tying asset ownership to a political project. Unlike donations, owning a bond forges a longer-term connection.

There are also strategic advantages to deepening Mamdani’s challenge to NPF. First, a DPF reframing allows the city government to reject the unpopular role of austerity manager. Second, it allows the city to put pressure on those who could attempt to enforce NPF, while staying on message about New Yorkers’ capacities, resources, and needs. Third, not engaging the assumptions of NPF while making “hard choices” means re-anchoring the fictitious chokepoint at the center of collective life, which necessarily implies devaluing the potential contributions and collective resources that could be mobilized to meet urgent needs.

Unless NPF assumptions are challenged head-on, they are bound to shape how the city’s capacities, resources, and agency become legible. Unless NPF assumptions are rejected explicitly, capacities and democratic processes appear downstream from “finding the money.” Even if it can never fully erase an awareness of actual possibilities on the ground, NPF makes people’s capacities seem redundant and solutions appear utopian when they are at arm’s reach.

A DPF reframing of taxation and bond issuance marks a departure from typical progressive discourse, which does not challenge the NPF idea of a monetary chokehold, either taking it for granted or considering the legal forms NPF takes as unchallengeable. These are the typical reasons given for not challenging the money scarcity tenet: It sounds reasonable and plausible to politicians, economists, and other members of the public. Because neoliberal claims about money scarcity are ubiquitous, how to persuade the public is an open question. It might also appear pointless at the municipal level: Given how entrenched NPF as law and frame, why bother with ideas that seem out of reach? Finally, adding another contentious issue to an already bold political project could strain resources.

These objections should be weighed carefully. At the same time, it is important to note that the emphasis on actual capacities of workers is already at the core of Mamdani’s vision, that the shift to a DPF framing can be accomplished gradually and at first, almost imperceptibly. It does not rely on declaring “We are all municipal MMTers now.” And it can leave a lasting impression with important implications for future politics: “Do you remember the mayor who consistently said that our work can always be mobilized, that money is not the limit, that we should be able to mobilize our work democratically when we decide what we want to accomplish together?”

The central claim of Area 2 is: A municipality that seeks to maximally expand its crediting operations ought to broaden its definition of money and explore complementary crediting tools. To this end, this section introduces the hierarchy of money and discusses its possibilities and limits using the example of educational systems and their crediting operations.

Not all money/credit is the same: This is the hierarchy of money. At the top is “high-powered money”—commercial banks’ balances with the central bank and federal fiscal appropriations. One step lower is the money in bank deposits—banks’ promise to exchange our balances for dollars at par on demand, or settle balances with other money users electronically. Commercial and governmental actors routinely combine such high-level dollars with lower-level credit systems: Airline miles, Starbucks gift cards, campus currencies, and gaming money are much farther down the hierarchy of money, yet they are immensely profitable and/or strategically useful for their issuers—the entities that issue them, regulate their use, and accept them back in payment to themselves.

The money question becomes multidimensional when lower-level crediting operations come into view. Governmental institutions ceaselessly issue credit, or accredit other institutions to do so in their stead: When the government doesn’t issue money, it charters banks to do so. When the public education sector does not issue credits or diplomas, DOE and other (DOE-accredited) accrediting agencies license private schools and universities that do the same. Governments also issue credits in the form of rebates for access to public facilities for certain groups (e.g. reduced entry fees for veterans). Finally, the public sector also maintains a broader legal system through which these public and commercial crediting systems can work. Collective life is a multifaceted crediting process, and politics is how we decide about the rules according to which this is done.

The Mamdani campaign’s Zetro card program illustrates how money functions as a social tool of credit to mobilize community labor and resources. During the campaign, the Mamdani team issued Zetro cards to volunteers, crediting them for their canvassing and organizing hours. These cards could then be redeemed for campaign merchandise. The system creates an effective monetary circuit for coordinating collective capacities. It demonstrates in real-time that we do not need to wait for scarce dollars to organize our collective capacities; we can institute our own systems of credit to acknowledge labor, foster community, and work toward a shared goal. The Zetro card, then, is not merely a clever organizing tactic; it is a living example of how we can build a more just and responsive economy from the ground up by understanding money as inexhaustible public credit.

As part of this logic, municipal governments ought to fully exploit the multiplicity of crediting possibilities, and deploy it in tandem with high-level dollars. Lower-level crediting systems, such as those deployed in the education sector, are not subject to NPF chokepoints (even if curved grading echoes NPF’s artificial scarcity). While they are distinct from dollars, at scale, they are a powerful means of mobilizing, valuing, rewarding and developing capacities and people and can be used to complement dollar expenses.

The logic of this section can be illustrated through the example of a decades-old summer camp in upstate New York, where returning campers, as they grow older and become more experienced, are gradually integrated into the supervising/instructional framework through several crediting systems. At first, campers earn badges for tasks accomplished (similar to scout ranks). At age 13, they can become Counselors-in-Training (CITs) who assist Counselors in some tasks. Now, they are already credited in the sense that their tuition is reduced and they can claim credit for their work on their CV. When they turn 16, CITs can apply to become Counselors, and become responsible for a group. This is a full summer job with dual crediting in dollars and work experience; they no longer pay tuition. Later, they can become specialized instructors, lifeguards, etc., with increasing dollar-denominated credit. At each step, they are credited in multiple ways and trained for the next step. While employment may not be guaranteed, there is a strong expectation that there is already a place for everyone who wants a job. This is a well-thought-out system that, at a small scale, captures the logic of a public education system that can expand into a larger public sector.

Outside of summer camps, the logic of dual crediting is ubiquitous in the process of “CV building”: For instance, as interns, people receive a mix of credit for work done and a modest wage; as professionals, people get “credit” for a job done (a line on the CV), and are credited in dollars. All educational systems, public and private, operate with multiple forms of credits and debits: For instance, higher education and research systems issue course credits, degrees, diplomas, awards and recognitions at all levels. They recognize “as credit” work experience, and at higher levels recognize and demand qualitative or quantitative evidence of merit, such as peer-reviewed publications. At the apex, the creditors themselves need to be credentialled (e.g., the higher education accreditation systems). In tandem with these multiple crediting systems, educational institutions rely on and administer a crediting/debiting system denominated in dollars that involves tuition, government funding, donations, fees and fines, and outlays of all kinds, e.g. as salaries for instructors or administrators. Educational systems manage the interaction of multiple crediting systems which situate them in broader social relations: Education functions because internal credits (e.g. diplomas) are recognized outside.

This section proposes expanding and formalizing the logic of multiple crediting systems, and making it part of a public sector expansion at the scale of the city. “Internal” credits can serve as an auxiliary engine to the dollar crediting system. Lower-level credit does not replace an engagement with NPF at the higher levels of money, but it makes the higher-level dollars more impactful and helps create a dynamic in which DPF can thrive and NPF becomes more implausible.

Imagine this sequence of crediting operations in which the summer camp serves as a model for combined “internal” educational and “external” dollar credit: Elementary and middle school students can become used to the idea of public service early on, for instance by involving them in custodial tasks, food preparation, or gardening for one period per day. There is successful precedent for this in Japan, and there are similar, and popular, programs in many schools in the U.S. today, e.g. when older elementary school students help teachers with the youngest. Custodians and cooks, on the model of home economics teachers, could become part of the academic staff; that is, they would be recognized as teachers. In addition to performing tasks that are unsuitable for students, they would manage and supervise students in collaboration with school leadership and other teachers.

At this early stage, students would be credited with grades (e.g. conduct grades) and through a credit/rewards system such as ice cream credits from nearby stores (a practice that already exists). Using educational credits to mobilize students in this way would have many desirable effects: If the spirit of public service is already present in kindergarten, students think of themselves less as passive consumers of educational services and more as active participants in a public process. This could be the beginning of a generational experience of public service and collective responsibility.

It could also redefine custodians, kitchen staff, and their work: They are already doing pedagogical work when they instruct students about how to dispose of waste etc., but they are at a disadvantage as long as they are not formally defined as teachers. This redefinition of workers is similar to the proposed upgrading of childcare workers to teacher status, an (ac)crediting operation that involves a higher salary but is not limited to this form of credit. It is worth noting that school districts have experience onboarding workers from “other” professions. It is also worth noting that, once this is accomplished, it is difficult to undo: If hundreds of custodians have been defined as teachers, they have contracts, union representation, etc.

In a context of a teen unemployment crisis, such internal crediting systems could be complemented by a plural credit system that includes dollars and subsidized public-purpose employment with high school credit. Initially, this could be a small-scale teen employment pilot project for the least enfranchised teens. If employers retain workers at the end of the period, their salaries could be subsidized. This program could be gradually expanded to include all teens. It is important to note that this would have to go hand in hand with a growing public sector in all areas of life (on the model of the proposed childcare expansion, and as part of the public sector expansion such as the Department of Community Safety, prevention first, Community Mental Health Navigators, EMT, violence interrupters). Similar to High School ROTC, but in the radically distinct context of local public service, youth could become familiar with possible future roles as they transition from high school credits and summer internships to public service employment. As it grows, its popular support base will also grow, and it would become more difficult to undo (similar to Social Security). Eventually, this logic can lead to a citywide Job Guarantee.

Note that this logic is radically distinct from a range of other options. (1) This is not a mere expansion of monetary benefits (e.g. the Uruguay of the Frente Amplio government after 2005) because it would tie crediting operations not to a diagnosed need (lack of money) and present high-powered money, by itself, as a remedy; instead, it would deploy multiple crediting systems to integrate people into a democratizing economic life that fulfills needs. (2) It is even more radically distinct from neoliberal “Hail Mary” job market insertion programs that first train people and then abandon them. (3) Neither is it a New Deal-style temporary employment program: It goes hand in hand with a sustained and carefully planned public sector expansion. There are wins each step of the way, these wins are difficult to undo quickly or completely even if there is, say, an electoral defeat.

In sum, multiple crediting operations can drive a planned, gradual expansion of the public sector, a revaluation of different kinds of work, a mobilization of human capacities, and a pedagogical process that mimics, at the scale of New York City, the summer camp logic sketched above. This is the spirit of a Green New Deal at the scale of NYC and should be creatively extended across sectors.

In addition to reframing the budget process and developing already-existing lower-level crediting systems, a DPF strategy could challenge the corporate domination of banking and payments.

This is the premise of Area 3: If crediting operations create the future, democratizing such operations is at the core of a more inclusive and just politics. Today, banking and payments are dominated by commercial banks, credit card companies, and payday lenders.

Recent New York legislative history offers bold solutions that can advance DPF in this context: The New York Public Banking Act (NYPB) and the Inclusive Value Ledger Act (IVL). The NYPB would establish a regulatory framework allowing New York municipalities to create their own public banks. These banks would be chartered to serve the public interest, not Wall Street, and could provide essential services like low-cost loans for public infrastructure, small businesses, and affordable housing. They would also provide a free, safe and surveillance-free place for New York residents to manage their money, thereby banking the unbanked.

This legal and institutional foundation will open the doors for the IVL, which would establish a public, digital payments system—a “Public Venmo”—for the entire state. The IVL would function as a public utility, offering every New Yorker a digital wallet connected to a state-controlled master account. This would enable no-cost, real-time payments between individuals and businesses, as well as with state entities for things like tax payments and benefits. This system would not only provide a no-fee alternative to commercial payment companies but could also be designed to recognize and reward public-purpose work, such as caregiving or community service, by delivering IVL credits directly into New Yorkers’ digital wallets.

Crucially, implementing an IVL does not have to wait for the passage of a comprehensive state-level bill. New York City could create its own city-wide IVL with a targeted amendment to State Banking Law § 131, which currently prohibits corporations from receiving deposits. This small but powerful legal tweak would explicitly exempt a New York City-operated Inclusive Value Ledger from this prohibition, allowing the city to provide a public payments system to its residents and businesses. This tactical approach would deliver a key component of DPF immediately and serve as a powerful proof-of-concept for the broader statewide campaign, deepening the connections between progressive NYC politics and statewide efforts.

Mamdani is uniquely positioned to make the aims of the NYPB and the IVL legible to a broader public. His strength lies in his ability to listen to communities and propose solutions that meet their needs, a talent that can be leveraged to demonstrate how these acts would serve the very programs Mamdani is already championing, such as public grocery stores. By weaving these previously obscure initiatives into a narrative of community empowerment, Mamdani can show how a new banking and payments system would broaden access to financial services to the unbanked, sideline exploitative corporations, and expand the city’s fiscal capacity. This system can be integrated with other initiatives to organize a robust people-first economy where transactions support public goods rather than private profits. Most importantly, by creating these new monetary institutions, Mamdani can mobilize labor and resources in innovative ways that directly address community needs, a core tenet of democratic public finance.

Building out state-level banking and payments systems are especially critical forms of regional resilience and resistance to the current political moment defined by the second Trump presidency. The current administration’s approach to public finance can be described as a radicalized form of neoliberalism, where austerity is not merely a de facto policy framework but an authoritarian directive. This is epitomized by the assertion of a unitary executive theory of money, where the President claims the unilateral right to impound—or simply refuse to spend—funds that Congress has appropriated. This unconstitutional power grab makes the federal fiscal process, but also previously “unpolitical” institutions such as the Automated Clearing House—vulnerable to a president who uses it to target political opponents and dismantle public programs. The aim is insulation from crisis bargaining: threats of shutdown, impoundment and legislative slow-walking lose their leverage when public payments continue uninterrupted. Pursuing state-level initiatives like public banking and payments systems offers a clear path to securing economic flourishing and self-determination for New Yorkers.

These bills cannot be revived and won overnight. But integrating the goals of these acts into a broader DPF narrative, Mamdani can make them not only socially meaningful, but also vital and exciting. The language and ideas we champion today shape what becomes imaginable tomorrow. Even if this struggle meets immediate resistance in Albany, it is crucial to shape the horizon in which the future will be contested. This proactive effort ensures that the conversation around public finance shifts from one of scarcity and austerity to one of collective capacity and possibility, laying the groundwork for a truly democratic financial system down the line.

To fully realize DPF, we must dismantle the foundational legal and ideological structures that uphold NPF. These deep-seated frameworks, often embedded in federal and state constitutions, represent the most formidable obstacles to transformative change. To leave them unchallenged in political discourse is to tacitly accept their premises of money scarcity and austerity, thereby limiting what is perceived as politically possible. While some of these deep structures were implemented during the neoliberal period, which began in the 1970s, others are rooted in the long history of the United States and owe to the anti-democratic impulses in the Enlightenment philosophy that informed the writing of the U.S. Constitution. Our goal is to expose these legal and ideological chokepoints not as unchangeable facts but as a political terrain to be contested, creating a pathway for long-term reform.

The core of NPF is a legal hierarchy that prioritizes private financial institutions over public bodies, especially at the state and municipal levels. The hierarchy consists of two basic, mutually reinforcing, structures. The first part of this structure is the legal framework that grants corporate banks the power to create credit, a privilege legal scholars Robert C. Hockett and Saule T. Omarova call the “finance franchise.” The second part constrains sub-federal public entities with balanced budget rules and limited powers of taxation and debt issuance. This system fosters a negative feedback loop where public entities, starved of democratic financing tools, are forced into a politics of austerity, while private markets are prone to credit-fueled bubbles.

The effort to challenge these deep structures must focus on two key areas: (a) sub-federal constitutional and legal constraints, and (b) federal constitutional and appropriations law.

(a) Overcoming Sub-Federal Constraints: At the state and municipal level, NPF is largely enshrined in balanced budget requirements and other fiscal rules. Such rules, often embedded in state constitutions, make it difficult for cities like New York to respond to the needs of their residents without resorting to regressive taxes or market-dependent borrowing. Mamdani must frame these constraints not as a sign of fiscal prudence but as a form of social and ecological irresponsibility, preventing the city from mobilizing its vast human and material resources to address urgent needs. Balanced-budget rules function as pre-installed political levers that can be yanked to break progressive coalitions when livelihoods and essential services hang in the balance.

While changing state constitutions is a long and arduous process, involving methods like legislatively referred amendments, citizen initiatives, or constitutional conventions, the conversation must begin now. By consistently highlighting how balanced budget amendments and other rules impede the city’s ability to serve its people, Mamdani can build public support for a future where these rules are challenged and ultimately transformed.

(b) Reforming the Federal Financial Architecture: The federal level presents its own set of constitutional chokepoints. Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution, which prohibits states from coining money or emitting bills of credit, is a primary legal barrier to sub-federal monetary power. Furthermore, the federal appropriations and payment authorization process itself contains anti-democratic bottlenecks that leave it vulnerable to executive overreach. A unitary executive can weaponize the government’s centralized IT infrastructure to illegally impound funds, overriding Congress’s constitutional power of the purse.

To address these issues, a transformative agenda would require:

A New Constitutional Amendment: The ultimate goal is to amend the U.S. Constitution to extend the finance franchise to states and municipalities. This would grant them the power of credit creation, moving them from being mere borrowers and taxers to being active participants in DPF. This is not a call for an unregulated free-for-all, but rather a new, regulated system where sub-federal entities are empowered to create money under strict rules to promote social inclusion, environmental sustainability, and affordable pricing. A new federal agency would be needed to coordinate this process and prevent destructive competition among states and cities.

Modernizing the Appropriations Process: Following the blueprint laid out in legal scholar Rohan Grey’s paper “Digitizing the Fisc,” the federal appropriations process must be redesigned to be more democratic and resilient. Key proposals include:

A Congressional Fiscal Record: A digital database and ledger, managed by Congress, that records all public funds and spending directives.

A “Treasury ATM”: A centralized, secure terminal for agencies to withdraw newly issued digital currency (“eCoins”) directly from Congress’s authority, bypassing the traditional Treasury and Federal Reserve intermediaries and their associated political vulnerabilities.

Public Credit Cards: Congressionally-issued digital “keys” that define the legal and operational limits of an agency’s spending authority, ensuring that funds are used in accordance with legislative intent.

A Federated Federal Ledger: A decentralized record-keeping system that synchronizes agency-level data with Congress’s central ledger, increasing transparency and accountability while protecting against a unitary executive takeover.

By advocating for these changes, Mamdani would not only challenge NPF at its deepest legal and ideological roots but also lay the groundwork for a truly democratic financial system where money is a public utility used to mobilize people and resources for the common good. This approach redefines responsibility, shifting the focus from arbitrary budget rules to the well-being of people and the environment. It is worth noting that identifying problematic legal norms, including and the constitutional level, can in and of itself have important effects: For instance, the fact that the ERA has not been adopted remains a useful reminder of widespread opposition to women’s rights. Therefore, it has pedagogical effects that are important and make it a worthwhile cause regardless of when or whether it is adopted.

Without a doubt, Zohran Mamdani’s vision for New York City represents the most politically savvy and fiscally robust undertaking in decades. This document argues that Mamdani’s transformative vision can be further enhanced if it directly confronts the myth of money scarcity and frames our collective capacities as the source of shared prosperity. Democratic Public Finance at once delegitimizes and bypasses neoliberal sabotage from the center, as well as authoritarian subjugation and exclusion. Mamdani can move beyond a defensive debate over funding and offer a hopeful, coherent narrative that shapes what we can achieve together in new ways. It can also, potentially, help reshape the political landscape beyond New York City by modeling a different approach to fiscal policy and assisting other municipalities. Implementing the proposed strategies–reframing the budget, mobilizing people through lower-level forms of credit, creating public financial infrastructure, and challenging the deep legal structures of austerity–is a long-term struggle. But even when immediate victory is uncertain, the very act of publicly contesting these rules is vital because it shapes what becomes politically legible and achievable for future generations. This fight will ground Mamdani’s ambitious platform in a shared sense of purpose, forging a stronger community and a powerful mandate to build a truly democratic and prosperous New York City.

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Paul, Sanjukta. “Antitrust as Allocator of Coordination Rights.” UCLA Law Review 67 (2020): 328–401. https://www.uclalawreview.org/antitrust-as-allocator-of-coordination-rights/.

Steininger, L. Eden. “Late Wittgenstein’s money.” Finance and Society 11, no. 1 (March 2025): 1–8. https://doi.org/10.1017/fas.2024.27.

Tcherneva, Pavlina R. The Case for a Job Guarantee. Cambridge: Polity Press, 2020.

Vaheesan, Sandeep. Democracy in Power: A History of Electrification in the United States. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press, 2024.

Wilson, Benjamin. “Assignment Prompt: A Classroom Currency Experiment.” Superstructure Vertical, June 16, 2025. https://moneyontheleft.org/2025/06/16/assignment-prompt-a-classroom-currency-experiment/.

Wilson, Benjamin C., Taylor Reid, and Max Sussman. “Food, Money, Democracy.” Money on the Left, July 31, 2022. https://moneyontheleft.org/2022/07/31/food-money-democracy/

One Battle After Another

In this episode of the Superstructure podcast, Scott Ferguson is joined by independent film scholar Jonathan Haynes to discuss Paul Thomas Anderson’s acclaimed new film, One Battle After Another. The conversation centers on the film’s contribution to popular political cinema under the authoritarian violence of the second Trump administration. Scott and Jonathan affirm One Battle’s unapologetically leftist perspective as a breath of fresh air within a current political climate of despair–a feeling emblematized by films such as Ari Aster’s Eddington. Specifically, the episode examines how One Battle, which draws loose inspiration from Thomas Pynchon’s 1990 novel Vineland, deliberately removes specific historical markers to place the story in an ambiguous present of ongoing revolution and counter-revolution. The hosts evaluate One Battle’s controversial representation of leftist violence, highlighting the film’s focus on countervailing infrastructures in addition to punctuated actions. They also speculate about the meaning of the film’s rich aesthetic choices, including the mobile telephoto lenses that transform a conventional car chase into a dizzying allegory of an American culture unclear about its driving motivations and aims. Finally, Scott and Jonathan consider the complex, racialized eroticism between the revolutionary mother and the white-supremacist commander (played by Teyana Taylor and Sean Penn), which gives rise to the central character, Willa (Chase Infinity). Willa, they argue, embodies the entangled, embattled, and yet still hopeful left politics that the film ultimately celebrates.

Music: “Yum” from “This Would Be Funny If It Were Happening to Anyone but Me” EP by flirting.
flirtingfullstop.bandcamp.com/
Twitter: @actualflirting

The Activist Humanist with Caroline Levine

We speak with Caroline Levine, Ryan Professor of the Humanities in the Department of Literatures in English at Cornell University, about her important book The Activist Humanist: Form and Method in the Climate Crisis (Princeton University Press, 2023). Building on the theory developed in her award-winning book, Forms: Whole, Rhythm, Hierarchy, Network, Levine’s The Activist Humanist redirects the critical capacities of formalist literary study to discover and mobilize the democratic potential of political forms thought by many on the left to be irredeemably exclusive, violent, and anti-democratic. Countering scholars in the environmental humanities who embrace only “modest gestures of care”—and who seem to have moved directly to “mourning” our inevitable environmental losses—Levine argues that large-scale, practical environmental activism should be integral to humanists’ work. For Levine, humanists have the tools–and the responsibility–to mobilize political power to tackle climate change. We speak with Levine at length about this project in an effort to move beyond critical gestures of dissolution and toward an activist formalism that moves constructively between politics and aesthetics.

See the Doughnut Economics Action Lab website for more information about the upcoming screening of Finding the Money mentioned in the audio introduction.

Visit our Patreon page here: https://www.patreon.com/MoLsuperstructure

Music by Nahneen Kula: www.nahneenkula.com

Transcript

This transcript has been edited for readability.

William Saas

Caroline Levine, welcome to Money on the Left.

Caroline Levine

So great to be here.

Scott Ferguson

We invited you to speak with us today about some of your recent work, about the social potentials of form across aesthetic and political registers. Maybe to set up this conversation, you can tell us a little bit about yourself, maybe your intellectual background, your training, and how you came to your more recent ideas and arguments.

Caroline Levine

Sure. I’d love to do that. I feel like my intellectual life is a little bit of a history of my discipline, or it’s a story about the discipline. I studied literary studies as an undergraduate in the late 1980s and early 1990s when deconstruction was all the rage. We were looking for gaps, which we called aporia, like watching language disintegrate and collide with itself. Everything was coming apart.

Then I went to graduate school at the University of London in England, where just about everybody was a Marxist of some stripe or other. So, I wasn’t doing this in order, but I was going from deconstruction to Marxism. I think I was particularly shaped by Birmingham School of Marxism. That’s people like Stuart Hall and Raymond Williams, who think about ordinary people as processing culture in interesting ways, as making cultural meanings, not just passive dupes of the culture industry, which is what the other big tradition in my field is – the Frankfurt School – where the culture is made at the top and it’s fed to you and you just take it in. I was much more drawn to the Birmingham school, but there was a kind of a problem that I felt like I wanted to solve. I worked at it for many years. That is, none of the models around me that were coming out of the humanities felt to me like they were accurately describing power.

We had, on the one hand, this kind of tiny, minute, textual reading, which people would say was powerful in some way because it would take apart binaries. I actually think that the rise of trans and non-binary sexualities has a lot to owe to that movement, so it did have a certain kind of cultural and material power. But Marxism was also always not quite satisfying to me, in terms of cause and effect, like what actually makes things happen in the world. Was it always materiality in the ultimate instance? I ended up trying to figure that out by way of this category of form, which across the arts once meant sort of the shapes and arrangements and organizations of works of art.

Like the composition of a photograph or the plot of a novel or anything that shapes or arranges it. So, it could be narration, or it could be rhyme, like lots of different things are forms. It seemed to me that what we do when we read literature is usually look at a lot of those forms in relation to each other. We look at rhyme and then we look at plot. Let’s say it’s a novel in rhyme. We’re thinking about those different forms interacting and they don’t interact perfectly. Sometimes they support one another. We’ll say, “oh, this plot is all about marriage and then the rhyme also brings couples into a nice relationship,” or whatever. I just made that up. But that’s one where they go together. There are many others where you say, “well, there’s this weird break in rhyme, it doesn’t quite work. What’s going on?” You know, we learn to read for the ruptures and the divergences from the main form. I was kind of grappling with, on the one hand, the question of form generally like, what if we look at all shapes and arrangements using the tools of literary study? Not just books and paintings, but also a school system or a seminar room or a public transportation system. Aren’t those also shapes and arrangements? That helped me to start to think about the relationship between works of art and social worlds, which was the thing I was trying to grapple with as I thought about power.

Does culture just reflect those social forms? Is it a product of a particular moment? That’s what most Marxists would say, right? So, culture comes out of a particular social moment. It seems to me that that wasn’t always true with literary forms. They were sometimes jumping across lots of different contexts, for example. Did they belong to a particular moment? That didn’t seem quite right to me. But if we see them both as forms, like if we see the literary forms and the social forms as shapes and arrangements, none of which has automatic priority over the other, we can come up with a different landscape of how power works.

The first place I went for the answer to this question was whether small forms can disrupt big ones, right? Could an art form actually undo a state or something like that? And I think the answer is no. But it was an interesting question for me. And trying to think about that question, like, “what do art forms do?” What kind of power do the forms themselves exert? I started to track something that I was a little surprised by, actually, given that formalism is a longstanding way of interpreting works of art, literature, and music, which was that pretty much everybody across the humanities was anti-formalist. Almost everybody was excited about breaks in form. They’re not excited about forms, but excited about breaks in form. I started to see the whole landscape of the humanities as being about rupture and disruptions on various levels. I was like, “okay, so everybody wants to break form, but what if forms are useful? And what if they don’t only work to contain us? Or maybe containment is itself not always a bad thing.”

I started to check for forms that are used both in social and political analysis and in artistic analysis. And those are holes, containers, which have been one of the biggest problems, seen as right wing forms. Right. So, like, the nation state is a bounded enclosure or the prison cell is a bounded enclosure. There’s a pretty long tradition of understanding literary forms like the sonnet as a room. Thinking about literary forms shape as being also like bounded enclosures. And my question was, are enclosures always wrong and bad? They definitely have a bad history. The enclosure movement is the beginning of capitalism as we know it, turning everything into private property that had once been commons and public property. But, one of the examples that came to me while teaching was the seminar room. We need an enclosed space in order to think and talk together. Otherwise, there’s bugs and there’s snow and there’s people coming in and out. If we think about enclosed spaces as also affording some good possibilities, we get a different account of the politics of form. So my four forms ended up being two that we usually hate on the left in literary studies, that’s whole and hierarchy, and two that we usually love, that is rhythm and network. I argued that we should love and hate all of them, that rhythms which we often take to be sort of organic and part of the body, we have the rhythms of the heart and the rhythms of walking. Those can also be put to use in terrible ways, like enslaved people forced to sing in order to work at a particular rhythm, for example, or music in factories was another common thing, especially in the 30s and 40s. So rhythm is not always emancipatory, but it also part of our lives everywhere. Our lives are structured by all kinds of rhythms, you know, work and sleep. Not enough sleep is one of those rhythms that I myself am most upset about. But also, do you exercise every day? Do you watch TV at a certain time?  Do we take a pill at a certain rhythm in our lives?

Just thinking about our lives are shaped by rhythms that are not only aesthetic. What does that mean? And then hierarchy was really my favorite one because I don’t think, as a leftist, I was ever going to be a person who would make a case for hierarchy. But I realized that I had been arguing for a really long time that equality is better than hierarchy. And what is that? That is a hierarchy. That’s a hierarchy of values. The idea of just one kind of thing taking precedence over another feels to me like actually one of the things we might fess up to on the left, that is we have values. We put human equality, for example, above certain kinds of individual freedoms. That’s a hierarchy that we buy into. I was also interested in the ways that hierarchies can upset each other and get in each other’s way, and they aren’t easily pulled together as we sometimes say in the humanities.

Scott Ferguson

Can I add something? On the left, we hate hierarchy because what we want is equality. I think another way that I’ve found it important to affirm hierarchy is a hierarchy of responsibilities. Right? So, we often think about a hierarchy of power, like “you’ve got more power than me!” As every Spider-Man fan knows, with power comes responsibility. And that’s not just like an afterthought. We need scale. We need people in organizations that have different scales and bits of responsibility and hierarchy as a form might be one way of thinking about that that’s not necessarily rigid or just flatly top down.

Caroline Levine

Oh, I love that example. Yeah, that’s a really lovely example. I talked to somebody who works in nonprofits who also said, “you know, when we think about hierarchies in an organizations, we usually think about power and money, but it’s also about what you can see.” At different levels of an organization, you have a different sense of how the organization works. A lot of my thinking on form was actually informed by being a department chair and realizing how the upper administration was working, how budgets were working, and how legal restrictions were working.

Scott Ferguson

And you had all these new responsibilities that weren’t just about producing monographs and making sure no one gets in your way.

Caroline Levine

And not that much power. As people point out, the department chair does not have much power. But to figure out how much power I did have, you know, what could be rearranged? What was possible to reformulate? So, yes, responsibility is a great way to think about it. So then, I kind of made the argument at the end of that book, Forms: Whole, Rhythm, Hierarchy, Network, that I thought you could make a better world using forms, but we shouldn’t avoid them. They’re kind of unavoidable. But we should think about which ones work better and work worse according to different values and different contexts. After I finished that book, people would say to me, “so how do you do that?” I realized I had a new responsibility, speaking of responsibilities, which was not just a call for this, “you know, let’s make a better world using form,” but actually to think about what does that look like?

That led me to the most recent book that I wrote, which is called The Activist Humanist, which I decided to take on. Speaking of hierarchies, I had to figure out what particular political problem I was going to think with, climate change seemed to me to be the one that had the largest impacts on everything else. Any other question that I had asked would be affected by climate change. And so how do you use forms to think about climate? One thing I really started to feel very strongly about and this has put me very much in the minority among humanistic thinkers, is that that urge to disrupt and to be open ended and to be subtle and to be questioning and to stop and kind of ponder our world – all of that – has actually gotten in the way of action on climate, because, in fact, big oil has wanted us to do exactly that. Doubt, delay, disrupt. And then we’ve got these authoritarian leaders around the world who are totally in love with disruption. We saw the tech industry, and then we saw Elon Musk move fast and break things. Do we really want to break things?

It seemed to me that on the left, one of our values has been actually to make sure that people have enough to eat, they have enough clean water, they have shelter. Like these are not exciting, subtle, interesting forms. They involve continuity and predictability and those were things that I started to really revalue and that changed pretty much everything about my research. So once I was like, “okay, I’m not all about breaking things anymore,” I started to think, “what forms do we need to sustain life over time?” Aqueducts were a pretty interesting example to me. They’ve lasted thousands of years carrying clean water to people. Almost all great water technology is thousands of years old, including flush toilets.

We don’t need something new. We just need it to be more equitably distributed. And there are societies that have equitably distributed water and they have forms to do that with. I spent some time in Morocco and in the countryside. A lot of Moroccan villages will divide up access to the river by times of the day in times of the year, so everybody gets equal access, for example. That seems great to me, but that’s a form and it’s constraining. Like you can only go to the river on Tuesdays between, you know, morning and lunchtime. You can’t use it at other times. You can’t irrigate from it at other times. It’s to say reevaluating containment as well as different kinds of forms to use for leftist ends.

William Saas

There’s a parallel that seems to be available to make or to draw or to observe between this kind of valorization of open-endedness in the critical humanities and defeatism is maybe one way to put it, but then also, maybe more troublingly, accelerationism. Let’s let the process play out so that we can end up with that space of open play and radical possibility.

Scott Ferguson

And the resources of that play or the energies of that play come from the accelerating dynamics of the very thing that you hate.

William Saas

Yeah. So I was wondering if you would comment on that. Also, there was a lot of therapeutic value in reading your book, and sort of rereading my own experience of being in the critical humanities and being with Money on the Left has been really affirming in the other direction. So, any more you can say about that. I know that we’re not interested in pointing fingers or assigning blame for where we are, but, oh boy, is that a possible thing that we could do.

Caroline Levine

Yeah, yeah. No, I really hear that. I mean, both my own sense of dissatisfaction too. “Wait, no, we have no plan.” We get to sit and wonder, and that’s pretty fun when you have the resources, but it’s super not fun if you’re being run over by the machines of extractivism and capitalism.

Yeah, I totally see that. As soon as I saw it, I started to get really bored of work in my field because I realized it was all ending with the soaring refusals to spell out the future. So, what I have discovered since is, I think, really powerful, which I do want to kind of take account of and recognize, which is that a lot of that kind of resistance is necessary. Right. We do have to take stuff apart. And that’s intellectually exciting and has some urgent purposes and I’ve learned a lot from it. But with the idea that, therefore, we should do nothing, I see it as both a humanistic problem across the humanities and a problem more broadly on the left of not wanting power. Because once you have power, you start to make choices that have consequences. Some of those consequences are not so great. But if you don’t take power, you get run over by the right, which is not worried about having power. They’re delighted to take power. Left pessimism, which is that kind of acceleration on the one hand and pessimism on the other hand, says “there’s nothing worth doing. We don’t have enough power to be able to stop capitalist extraction.” There’s a book that just came out this past year by Nathan Hensley in my field called Action Without Hope. He really says something like “all attempts to act in the face of climate change will simply be fed into the machine of capitalism.”

That sense that there’s no outside, there’s no position you could take that would be a genuine resistance. He ends up talking about typographical errors in 19th century poetry as the site of resistance. To me, that now really feels wrong, like it’s really in cahoots with the “don’t do anything, don’t stop anything.” I guess I have two further thoughts and apologies for going on and on, but it’s the Frankfurt School in the 1950s and 60s who I feel like they have the tightest hold on literary studies right now. It’s that notion that there really is this mass culture. It’s all about standardization and it’s all about instrumentality. So, it’s about taking every corner of your life; your entertainment, your sexuality, and putting that to some kind of use for a capitalist machine. To the extent that that was true in the 50s, and I’m not sure it was ever really true, I still have my Birmingham side, which is like “no, puppet culture also calls on people’s actual desires, their actual fears and longings and it may channel them in certain ways that are ideological, but there’s also something else in there, in a more dialectical way, that is giving us real pleasure for real reasons.” So, I’m a little doubtful about the original hypothesis, but I certainly think that that version of culture doesn’t hold anymore.

Our cultural platforms are so fragmented, and people are getting lots of different kinds of elements. They’re not getting one standardized version of culture at all. It hasn’t been better. I mean, I think in some ways a standardized culture was, you know, at least we talked to each other in some way. Now we’ve got this incredibly fractured environment and the accelerationists, I’m sure, are very happy about that, but I’m less so. But it’s hard to say, like, why are we still behaving as though culture is just one big centrist, normalizing framework when it just isn’t anymore? So that’s one problem with that version of both the left and of the humanities. The other one is, do we really think we have zero power? What tradition is that from? For Adorno, it really was like “thinking is the thing that has the most power.” Open thinking is what he calls it, and it’s not thinking towards instrumental ends. He was very critical of the 60s radicals because he was like, “oh, they’re just instrumentalizing, like everybody else, you know, putting action before thought.”

That’s okay, but I don’t think we live in a culture which prioritizes political action at all. I don’t think that’s the dominant culture of our movement. I think, if anything, you get involved in any issue to the just mildest center left all the way to the far left, and you will be vilified, you’ll be locked up, you will be doubted. That includes by other people on the left and so it’s not like we have this mass culture of everybody in the streets. We have a mass culture of everybody on their screens, which is a very different story.

Scott Ferguson

Yeah. It creates a vacuum of sorts that stimulates desire for action or what looks like action. That’s what Trumpism is giving us. Even as a pathological liar for whom every accusation is a confession, at least he’s shaking things up and doing things. Greenland is ours. It’s Gulf of America. We’re going to capture you in a van wearing masks. We’re doing stuff. I think those two things work together in unfortunate ways.

Caroline Levine

Absolutely. Yeah. That’s a very sobering point. Somebody just recently, I can’t remember who, was using the word sclerotic to describe democratic institutions. So, I guess that’s right. Like they get so crammed and stuck in ways that don’t do anything. That version of action is one of the reasons we’ve got these openings to authoritarianism right now. There is another version of action which the Marxist tradition knows a lot about. That is how you gather working people together to resist. There are a lot of people skeptical of that version of action, but I think we’re studying when that works and when it doesn’t and what forms in particular allow that kind of work to happen.

Rather than deciding from the outset that it’s not possible or if people are gathered, then somehow they will be constrained in a way – that’s a sort of libertarian leftist version. We’ve had these horizontalist movements in the last 20 or 30 years that have celebrated the idea that everybody belongs in every movement, and there’s no leadership and there’s no hierarchy. There’s another place where I think not all hierarchies are bad. It might be helpful to have some “let’s work together on an issue that we can solve.” So again, a formal question as much as kind of question of power or the two together.

Scott Ferguson

I’d like you to talk about some of the very specific examples or case studies that you work through in the book. Your training is in 19th century literature and you offer us a rather defamiliarizing reading of the 19th century realist novel, which you point out is sort of paradoxical because you’re trying to get away from defamiliarization as an end in itself.

That’s cool. But you’re also not rejecting deep familiarization either, right? You’re just saying that’s not the end all be all. That’s not where you put the period. I want to invite you to share with our listeners who haven’t had a chance to engage with your book what your reading of the novel and literary conflict and closure could mean or could afford that’s beyond just a kind of repressive mechanism, or a cruel optimism, as it were, to make us just be happy about the crumbs that we get.

Caroline Levine

The form that I study or that all 19th century novel people study and hate the most, probably of any literary form that exists in the world, is the happy ending. 19th century novels are famous for their happy endings, and not all of them have happy endings, but most of them do. And most of those endings are kind of ideologically representative of a particular bourgeois culture. You’ve got marriage and the household and reproductions. You’ve got straight white people in the house with money and that is often the end the story right there.

Scott Ferguson

And other people have to be jettisoned and die along the way.

Caroline Levine

Yes, yes. Good point. Right. So, if you’ve read Jane Eyre, then the madwoman in the attic has to be expelled for Jane to get her happy ending. It’s often queer people and people of color and poor people who have to be kind of shoved out of the frame in order for that happy ending to happen. 19th century scholars have spent a lot of time showing how that ending works. I think it’s been very persuasive. There is one piece of it, however, these days, having done this work on form, I’m always looking for the other affordances. If we say this is containing and repressive we’re practicing the habit of deciding that a particular form has a particular politics. I’m always looking for the other politics that’s possible in that form. I thought about my own being drawn to the 19th century novel as a young person and probably everybody has some image that comes from the 19th century novel of urban poverty. You’ve got Oliver Twist: waif on the streets, right?

That gave us that image of the child who is not taken care of by anybody and has to make their way in the world. So, I started to track what I now call plots of precarity, that is, the stories of characters who don’t have reliable food, shelter, wages. There’s a lot of those in the 19th century, not just in English, but in French, German, Spanish, Japanese. There’s precarity written all over modern, 19th and 20th century fiction. What do the endings of those novels give us? They don’t always give us marriage. They don’t always give us ownership of a house or property. What they always give us is a future of predictable food, water and shelter. To think about popular culture as offering people something that they actually want, I started to think, “yeah, lots of people are precarious, now. Why wouldn’t they be hungering for an ending that shows an end to precarity?” Of course, for women, this is complicated because in the 19th century, the end of precarity comes from marrying somebody who has money. That’s your only guarantee of not starving if you’re from a certain class. You don’t have any other options for work or inheritance of your own. The marriage plot is actually about this kind of material predictability, which I think is a real desire and not simply an ideological duping of an audience.

I started to look at happy endings in lots of different cases. One of my favorite examples in doing research for the book is Stone Birch Blues, which is often considered the first trans novel, by Leslie Feinberg. There’s a trans character who has been kicked out of multiple homes, can’t find stable shelter, and in the final chapters they actually get an apartment. I am going to say “they,” as they don’t use any of the updated pronouns in the novel, which came out in 1993, I think, or something like that. But they decorate an apartment, they make food, then they go to a union rally or maybe it’s a gay lesbian rights rally. They say, “we got to stick together because we have to make homes for each other.” So, it’s like the domestic plot, but writ large as, “let’s make homes for everybody.” Let’s not reject the domestic plot. Let’s think about how everybody should have access to that.

Scott Ferguson

Yeah. That’s great. And then you also carry this forward to a more contemporary Pulitzer Prize winning work of seeming nonfiction. But you track this form, this kind of realist form of the precarious plot and the potential happy ending to this work, Evicted. Can you talk about that twist in this tale?

Caroline Levine

Yes. Yes, I’d love to. It has actually been part of my work for a long time to move between aesthetic and nonaesthetic objects. Narrative, for example, is a form that you see in the novel storytelling, but you also see it in the court of law, and you see it in the doctor’s office, and you see it in gossip.

Scott Ferguson

What’s so cool about your approach is that it’s not base and superstructure. There’s not a real world that has real narratives and then there’s fakey secondary stories that are formal and that have to reflect or resist. You don’t flatten the difference between a nonfiction book and a 19th century realist novel and a closing argument in a court of law, but you also don’t fall into the standard ways of prioritizing one over the other as more real or more causally prior or something like that. Anyway, back to you.

Caroline Levine

I’m so glad you like that, because that to me is one of my favorite things about the kind of formalism that I practice. I don’t have that many takers for that.

Scott Ferguson

I took it!

Caroline Levine

You took it. Thank you for taking it. To use another literary and also Marxist term, and I’ve learned a lot from Anna Kornbluh, who is another deeply Marxist thinker on the left who’s interested in form. Every access to the world that we have is mediated by forms. Right. So, to say some are fictional and some are nonfictional is true. But if both use narrative, then thinking about how narrative works to allow us to see certain things about that world and not to see other things about that world seems to me just as interesting – both factual and fictional way of understanding what we’re understanding about the world.

Matthew Desmond Desmond’s Evicted. I think I read it just because it was being widely praised and I wanted to learn more about housing. I don’t know how many pages in – 30 pages in – I was like, “oh, my God, this guy must have read a gazillion 19th century novels.” This is one of the reasons this is such a great book, he has lots of tactics from the realist novel that really work to evoke precarity and particularly housing precarity. He tracks 8 or 10 renters in Milwaukee who are real people. He spent lots and lots and lots of hours with them. You start to really identify as a reader with these people who are doing their best and then the unfairness hits them and they’re out on the street again and it gives you this incredible punch partly because of the ways he narrates those experiences. I do some readings of the novelistic elements of it. But I was really struck by his two endings.

So, one of his endings is one of the most heartbreaking characters in the whole work, who is an African American mother of two who’s been evicted multiple times, and each time she’s evicted it gets harder to rent the next place. Her two sons are these wonderful, loving kids who probably don’t have a lot of hope for a better life. But in the last scene that Desmond narrates, the mother is saying, “I could just imagine you building a house for me, you sons, and all of us living together and laughing together.” It is like the end of a 19th century novel. It’s the home built by the children who are going to carry on the moral tradition of the mother, and she is just somebody who’s good and gets caught up in this terrible system. You have this ghost of the happy ending because she’s not going to get it and that’s tragic. Then you have a long, kind of epilogue where Desmond sets out policy prescriptions for housing vouchers and how we could, in fact, institute a system that would allow the characters we’ve come to love in the rest of the text to have stable homes into the future.

One of the problems with the 19th century novel, which I think novelists were pretty aware of, was that they could only follow one character. If you look at the end of Oliver Twist, he ends up happy but all the other workhouse kids have crappy futures. Oliver kind of says, “I wish I could save them all, you know?” The novel doesn’t know how to do that. It doesn’t know how to scale up, but policy prescriptions from a sociologist like Matthew Desmond does know how to scale up, he does know how to design a form that could create that. To me, that was this beautiful move between literary narrative forms and social forms for progressive ends.

Scott Ferguson

Thank you.

William Saas

What do you feel like the most common and maybe also the best or most compelling line of criticism or response to your work has been.

Caroline Levine

Yeah. I think you’ve hinted at two of the ones that I take most seriously, that come most often, and one is: if you do set out to remake the world for the better…

William Saas

Even modestly.

Caroline Levine

Even modestly, right, and maybe especially modestly. Let’s say you’re able to get a labor union going in your workplace or you’re able to redistribute labor, as I did as a department chair, so that it was more equitable. These are small and, we would say, not structural changes. Does that actually feed the right by mollifying us? That’s the accelerationist argument. We won’t get real revolution until people are at their most desperate. I think there’s two problems with that case. One is that: I look at the history of Marxist thought, and there’s multiple strains, but back in the Communist Manifesto, Marx says, “let’s go for things like free education for children as a way to build the left.” Large groups of people are mobilized by particular, local things that they can make better.

Rosa Luxemburg picks that up. They have detractors, but they also have a robust history on the left. So, is that true or not true? Once people are drawn into a movement for change and they “win,” do they then go home and say, “okay, I did my work, and I can rest for the rest of my life?” What seems to me to be truer, according to the data, is once you get involved in something, and especially if you win, you’re more likely to get involved in the next thing. In my life as an activist, I notice that if you go on a college campus and you try to talk to people about a particular issue that’s coming up, the same people will be active in trans rights and immigrant rights and in academic freedom and in the AAUP and they’ll be fighting for divestment. It’s because they’re the people who think, “you take action,” it’s not because taking action makes you passive. It’s because it seems like taking action actually helps to make you more active. I’ve been more persuaded by that side of things. it does seem to me true, again, in my own activist work, that the people who are committed activists often had something that pushed them into activism in the first place, and then they stay.

There’s actually really interesting work on the pro-life movement. I have also been criticized for using this because it’s a right-wing movement rather than a left-wing one. I think it’s interesting. What gets people involved in pro-life activism? A lot of people don’t have strong views on abortion before they get involved in pro-life activism. It’s all about the social world being welcoming. A neighbor says, “hey, come to a picnic,” or “come to this march with me” and you get involved, and then you get committed to the ideology. The social form comes first and then the intellectual form follows, or the political form follows. I think that is true for getting people involved in this kind of activism. I don’t think it’s a way of pacifying people. We tell way too few stories of victory and so people think activism doesn’t work when it does.

One of the stories I talk about with my students a lot is “ACT UP.” Talk about a movement that had far reaching consequences. Some of them, of course, are being rolled back right now, but many millions of lives were saved by ACT UP’s work in the 1990s. A lot of it was creative. A lot of it was in your face and some of it received backlash. Insurance exclusions for people with preexisting conditions affected just about every American. To say it failed or to forget about it or to say activism never works is to miss the ways in which these movements have long tails. We then take too much for granted, which is one of the reasons – to go back to your earlier point about deep familiarization – I do think we need to remember what we have that’s good and not only think about our society is completely immiserated and immiserating because there are good things. More access to health care is better than less. Yeah. It would be better if we didn’t have insurance companies at all. Yes, but this is better than what could be. So, you can hear my politics. I’m of the “it could be worse” persuasion in thinking about how we won these fights. We have a real aversion, and Lauren Berlant’s Cruel Optimism is a good example of this in literary studies, to ever telling a story about victory, because that is always said to be a way to somehow prop up the status quo.

I’m convinced it is exactly the opposite. The less you tell stories of victory, the less people want to get involved and the more powerless they feel, and therefore the more the right just rolls over us. So that’s one version of the story I’m working on right now. I’m trying to write about agency and to think about Marxist, post humanist and liberal theories of agency and what each of them has to offer and where each of them kind of comes up short. That’s one.

Back to your original point, though, which was a great question about the major critiques. The other is that I’m selling out the humanities because I’m turning towards these kind of instrumental plans and programs, like getting involved in action instead of sticking with the particular value of the aesthetic, which is open ended. By closing down that open endedness, I’m kind of saying, “let’s move over to the social sciences and away from the humanities.” I think I’m not doing that. I think the humanities resistance to action is not a necessary element of humanistic thinking, but it does seem to be for a lot of people. There are a lot of people who say, “once you cross that bridge from open ended thinking nuance and dissolution, you are in the realm of propping up the status quo.” This is especially true when you’re in the realm of doing that in the university, which right at this moment we need this kind of thinking more than ever.

I’ve been thinking a lot in regard to that. I don’t want to sell out the humanities. I do actually think the humanities aren’t doing what it could to be exciting to a lot of people. To my mind, one of the ways to draw people in is to say, “this could have an actual impact on making your life better, not just getting you to question things.” Though, I do believe in getting people to question things. But my own teaching has been really where I’ve been working this out the most. I teach, by choice, almost entirely non majors. I teach a lot of STEM and business students. Cornell is a very science-y place because we have an ad school and an engineering school, and arts and sciences is comparatively a small part of the university. I realize I teach much better if I go to the topics that the students are interested in and bring humanistic thinking and methods with me, then if I say, “you have to come to me.”

I haven’t taught Victorian poetry in like a dozen years because students don’t know what it is. They don’t know why they should care. They don’t. You know, those two words are not words students love: Victorian and poetry. What I have to do turns out to be what I want to do. It has become kind of a vocation for me. I think we’re better off not bemoaning the fact that students aren’t automatically coming to our classes and instead saying, “okay, you’re interested in renewable energies, how can humanistic thinking help you? Think again about that. Think about your position in relation to that.”

I just taught a fantastic poem by Juliana Spark called Dynamic Positioning, which is about the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, or BP’s oil spill in 2010. That’s a great poem. I had 30 stem majors working at that poem yesterday. I don’t think they were objecting at all. They were really using their brains and in a way that was enthusiastic. I don’t think I’m selling out the humanities. I think I’m doing the opposite. I’m trying to do the things that will keep us afloat and strong, and that has meant medical humanities, environmental humanities, thinking about humanities and business.

We have this famous hotel school at Cornell and the hotel students are basically business majors with a focus on the hospitality industry. I ran into somebody who worked in the hotel school working on undergraduate curriculum. I said, “so do the students talk about histories of hospitality. There’s so much interesting stuff in the Bible and philosophers who deal with hospitality.” She said, “they don’t even get a definition of the term.” So, I asked all my colleagues, some of whom work on hospitality, “would you like to teach a course to hotel majors?” They all said no. I was like, well, “I don’t know a lot about hospitality, but I sure find it interesting.”

Scott Ferguson

And it’s everywhere in stories!

Caroline Levine

It’s everywhere!

Immigration. Yes. Climate change, tourism…

Scott Ferguson

Motels.

Caroline Levine

Absolutely. We put so much energy as universities into orientations and welcoming people in. Hospitality is everywhere. What about the classroom and hospitality? It’s just so interesting. So, I developed a course and the hotel students who are in my other classes are often just checking off a box, like “I took a humanities course” and don’t seem like the most engaged students and often don’t get the best grades. In that class, they are 100% there. They want to think about every aspect of hospitality because they’re giving their lives to this, and they want to take it seriously. So, this is my message to the humanities, which I am told I’m selling out, but I’m like, “no, there’s 120 students in that class,” which is big by Cornell standards. Let’s meet them where they are.

Scott Ferguson

That’s great. I feel like you’re already going down this road, but I want to invite you to keep on walking. I don’t think it’s entirely fair to say that all recent left activism has been this way. But there is definitely, like, an impulse toward not only horizontalism, but also spontaneity. Your point is to say even spontaneity is a form and that might be contradictory in certain ways. There are also forms of organizing and you’re trying to give us a bit of a taxonomy of different kinds of organizing forms. So we’ve asked you about the realist novel, maybe now you can talk to us about some of the specific organizing forms with some examples drawn from your book or other research.

Caroline Levine

Absolutely. I’ve been really influenced by some very good political theorists thinking about horizontality. So, if we take Occupy Wall Street as an example, that was understood as a spontaneous kind of eruption. So, the two often go together. The idea being that everybody is welcome, there is no agenda, there’s no specific goal, everybody can speak and there’s no hierarchy in the organization. I think a lot of people found that heady and really exciting. I think there is something to what they sometimes call free figurative politics. You’re finally living in an equal world, and that feels amazing. I think a lot of people were actually transformed by Occupy Wall Street, and I don’t want to say it did nothing but the fact that it had no demands because it was open ended, deliberately meant that it was very hard to negotiate anything to say that there was a victory to do anything other than disband.

It still had a form, that is: Occupy Wall Street meant going to Zuccotti Park in downtown New York City, near Wall Street and hanging out there 24 hours a day. It was a spatial form. It was occupying a public space. I argue that we need temporal forms. We need goals especially if we think we can fight for them and win. Then we have the story of victory, which can build on itself. The civil rights movement is a great example of this, because it isn’t one movement. It’s a kind of cascade of movements. So, when Montgomery wins the bus boycott, that influences and excites people in lots of other communities to say, “well, we can win, let’s do that.” My model is different, but it imagines that a temporal form in the form of a goal is actually really important to movements. It’s important in part because it is the opposite of open-mindedness. So, if we constantly value open-endedness, we will miss the value of the organizing form of the goal, which keeps people going on a path which is often very hard and rocky.

Scott Ferguson

But this is another knotty word in the humanities: teleology. This is very Aristotelian, you know. In my college education in the 90s, that was one of the devils that I was introduced to. I’ve come around to appreciate teleology. It doesn’t always have to be terrible.

Caroline Levine

That’s right. That’s all I want to say. It doesn’t always have to be terrible. Sometimes it’s useful. We don’t just have to go pro or anti, right? We can see its possibilities. But it’s still true today that teleology is a word you can say as something to avoid without explanation or justification, which, that’s come to seem to me to be a case where whenever there’s a word like that, that’s the one I want to investigate, because that’s the word that’s carrying too much. That goes without saying. Teleology is one of the forms that I think is actually very useful for activist movements. I was very struck by the research, and I do draw in social science research. I also think there’s a lot of reasons to critique social science research. So, it’s not that I take it to be true always and forever, but I think it’s useful to study the forms that have worked and to think about why they have worked. Social scientists point out that people are most likely to get involved in activism during what they call a turning point moment in their lives. So, this is often when moving to a new place. Going to college is one of those moments. Retiring is another moment when people are like, “oh, I can take on new responsibilities now.”

You often see this in movements that very young people and retired people are often on the front lines, and those are the people who have more time and aren’t invested in the problem of keeping their jobs, for example. How do you reach people at their turning points? One of the things I worked on at Cornell was, and it’s had mixed responses and we’re still working on it, a little online module for all incoming first year students to think about Cornell and sustainability. There we get out some information that is otherwise hard to reach everybody with, like Cornell’s tap water is higher quality than bottled water and free. Maybe start out your time at Cornell thinking about the water.

In the module, we try to get them to look at all the climate organizations that are already going on at Cornell and to name three organizations that they might like to get involved in. We’re trying to get them to use that turning point moment to get involved in organizations that already exist. The other big problem for movements to be effective is scale. A small group of people can do a lot, but it’s a lot easier if you have a large group of people. I am always trying to get us in the humanities to think about scale because we’re very focused on particularity, the exception, the margins, and all of that is incredibly important to me, but not as a politics.

As a politics, I think we need to come together in ways that enact solidarity across movements. One thing in reading histories of activist movements that have worked, it seems to me that it very often hinges between preexisting organizations. You don’t just recruit one person at a time. You look at existing organizations, and you say, “can we bring this whole group into the project?” I think one of the problems we have in American universities is that students, when they write their application essays, have to prove leadership. Once they get to college, they think they have to start an organization or lead an organization. But actually, we just need a lot of foot soldiers. We just need a lot of people stuffing envelopes or whatever the contemporary equivalent of that is. If it’s not stuffing envelopes, it’s posting on social media or organizing town halls or whatever it is. We need a lot of people just doing the grunt work of showing up. What is it like to talk to people about how much time they have, what they’re good at, and how they can join existing organizations rather than having to invent something new? I’ve started to say in my activist recruitment, like, “if you have an hour a month to give, that’s valuable to any organization.” I think most people are really surprised because they think it’s an all or nothing proposition, “I have to drop all the things I’m doing.”

Most people have an hour a month. That feels manageable to a lot of people. So that’s a form, in the sense that I am trying to think about people’s busy lives. I have kids, I have a job, I have other responsibilities, how do I fit it in? Well, let’s think about what’s a reasonable amount of time and what kinds of things am I good at doing and like doing? Do I have to be the person who picks up the phone? No, I hate picking up the phone. I really don’t want to do that. Give me ten other jobs to do and I’ll do those for you. So, a lot of people think that activism is showing up at a march, but it isn’t. It doesn’t have to be that at all. It can be research and stuff like that. Getting people to understand how collective actions work is to get them to understand lots of different forms that aren’t just the visible ones that they see.

Scott Ferguson

I want to raise a question that I’m going to probably stumble around in posing, and it might not even be fully fair, because I don’t think, at least in the text by you that I’ve read, you’re actually taking this particular thing on, but it speaks to our position as sort of public intellectuals and activists of a kind. It seems like very often the examples that you’re giving about activist forms and working through in your work, for the most part, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, but for the most part, it seems like the social values driving the activism and the teleology of that activism are relatively self-evident. Now, there are exceptions like the pro-life activism.

They get people who are not even sure where they sit, but they throw a party and they’re really warm and inviting and you become convicted that that indeed this is my value. It’s more important than anything I’ve ever valued before, even though I didn’t value it last week. But for the most part, it seems like the challenge is: so many of us know, for example, the facts about climate change. So many of us know the realities of systemic racism. It’s just about getting off our butts and activating our labor power to coordinate and make change. That’s tremendous and wonderful. Our particular situation, however, is that we are actually trying to create a paradigm shift that is totally defamiliarizing.

We’re trying to say that money is a public utility. We’re trying to say that it’s not a zero-sum game, that it’s a public system that has been designed and can be designed different ways. It doesn’t have to be designed for private property and for private profit. It doesn’t have to be designed such that you rely on past revenues to finance the future. You can invent a crediting mechanism that is just full of futurity, it doesn’t matter what you earned in the past and that blows people’s minds. It scares people half to death. Often Marxists are freaked out about it. I’m not asking you to be our personal consultant and to solve our problem and it’s not like we don’t have answers. We’re trying our best. We’ve been at it for quite a while. It seems like that’s another challenge that’s a little trickier. It also braids the critical thinking and framing and rhetoric and the kinds of things we do really well in the humanities. It braids that in a different way with creating organizations and mobilizing people. I don’t know if you have thoughts about that particular problem.

Caroline Levine

It makes me realize why I love that project so much because it is so close to my heart. It’s a solution or set of solutions and ways of rethinking with practical consequences, that isn’t about necessarily smashing everything, but about using things in a much better way, which would have much better consequences. I absolutely love that. I did have the experience of telling my radical daughter about it, and she was like, “no, money is evil.” She’s a Marxist and I was like, “but wait, hold on a minute.” I see the climb and why it’s important. One thing that worries me a lot, and I spend time thinking about but not having any answers for is, “how many great projects are fairly complicated and so require attention and trust?” People are so bombarded with things that are scams and lies. What kind of context builds trust so that people can imagine actually getting involved or actually seeing how that works. So, Ben Wilson, who’s the first of the Money on the Left people I got to know, helped me to see how I could use that in my classroom.

I haven’t done it yet, but I’m planning to get real training on how to do that. That feels like, “okay, if we have a kind of thought experiment, experience, or experiential learning kind of model, I’ll get it and they’ll get it much better than if I just try to say it.” It has been one of my questions, because I always taught literature and it was really just about people in text. Then I realized, no, the real question is climate change, which I teach all the time. 96% of students at Cornell are worried about climate impacts. They are aware. How do they figure out how to act? That experiential learning, which is one of the things the quote unquote, neoliberal university loves, might actually be really useful. It doesn’t look like the traditional humanities, but it does look like learning in a way that I think people digest better and stays with people. I read these studies where you give an exam, and students retain something like 15% of it a year later. What are we doing if we’re just giving them content?

I love the idea of piloting this as a classroom project. But scaling it up is hard because you got to get your head around a lot of different pieces. I used to live in Madison, Wisconsin, and there was a joke among social scientists about the Madison effect that all sorts of scientific experiments worked in Madison, and that was partly like, “yeah, it’s a pretty progressive town and a lot of educated people.” The idea that you do an experiment is not in itself a weird thing, or that you think about things.

Scott Ferguson

And everybody is ready to play along.

Caroline Levine

Everybody’s willing to play along. How do you do that in places where people aren’t willing to play along? But again, reading about projects that work, one of my favorites that I’ve always wanted to try in the university is participatory budgeting, which works with really poor people with no political capital where they just have community and the experiences of the community. And it works. Designing it in some way that a small community can try it out and see how it works, that feels like the kind of model that could take off. I am just telling you what you guys think about all the time.

Scott Ferguson

We appreciate it. Just talking about it matters. Of course.

Caroline Levine

Yeah, right.

William Saas

I love that the language that you give us for it, affirmative instrumentality works really well for our project. Formalism for survival describes what we’re up to. Infrastructures for collective life is another. Money is a routine pathway and enclosure and you giving us different ways of talking about and reckoning with what we’re doing is super helpful.

Caroline Levine

I am so thrilled.

William Saas

Thank you.

Scott Ferguson

I am maybe working toward a conclusion. Who do you see as your fellow travelers? You named Anna Kornbluh. You name check her in the more recent book as having learned something from her. She’s been at the bleeding edge of this anti-disintegrative impulse that informs so much of humanities work. I’ve heard in the halls of academia that you’re part of the so-called New Formalism. I don’t know if that’s a thing. Do you wear that calling card? We’ve talked a lot about how you’re a lone ranger, and in many ways you are. But in other ways you’ve got community. So maybe just talk about that fellowship.

William Saas

I would throw into that mix Jody Dean as well, and work on the party as a kind of form.

01;10;47;07 – 01;11;24;05

Caroline Levine

I feel much less militant than Jodi Dean and Anna Kornbluh both. I am delighted for them to be thinking through these problems of collective forms and moving away from disintegration and so forth. I’ve had a lot of trouble being a full-blooded Marxist. I feel like I’m fully shaped by Marxism, and yet I end up not being in line with it. So, I do sometimes feel kind of intellectually lonely because Anna Kornbluth rightly says I have a really weird reading of Foucault in forms, and I do have a really weird reading of Foucault. I admitted that reading it. I think it’s a good reading of Foucault. Okay. That is, I learned from him about whole, rhythm, hierarchy and network. He’s got that mapped out in the middle of Discipline and Punish, as social forms that make us who we are. He then goes in a direction I don’t go in and neither does Anna, which is to say, all these forms converge to make one surveillance machine.

I think that’s not right, because that’s not how forms work. They continue to not go in sync with each other. But that middle part of Discipline and Punish still feels to me like the thing I learned maybe most from, and so there’s something a little weird about taking the middle of a Foucault book and splicing it on to Stuart Hall like that.

Scott Ferguson

But there’s also other parts of Foucault’s career where he’s Nietzsche in so many ways, and yes, I am definitely not a Nietzschean. But like in that sense of the generativity of world making I see that in Foucault. Maybe it’s not as developed in Discipline and Punish, and it’s developed in other places.

Caroline Levine

No, you’re absolutely right. Foucault was actually an activist. He worked in prison reform. There’s also that piece of Foucault. So, it’s just to say, who are the people putting these things together in multiple ways? Let me think of some of the people I really admire. There are many of them, but they’re motley. Rodrigo Nunes, who’s a political theorist from Brazil, wrote Neither Vertical nor Horizontal. He’s got a kind of theory of social organization that really works, I think. Political theory and cultural studies theory are not far apart. I feel like I move easily between political theorists and literary cultural studies theory people.

I keep going back to Stuart Hall. I really think there are whole portions of Hall’s thinking that are about the rise of an authoritarian right that I think we could really use now. Who else do I read and I’m just super excited? Teagan Broadway, who’s my close friend and Ben Wilson’s colleague at Suny Cortland, is, like me, a formalist who thinks across and between social forms and cultural forms. She’s been working on the question of the small group. She’s got four or five forms that she says, “we’ve thought of the nuclear family as the only kind of small group. There’s that and the nation and then there’s a big space in between.” What about the squad or the committee? These are smaller social forms that are also queer forms, she argues, made use of by, for example, ACT UP. We could use these forms as the building blocks of making bigger and bigger movements, because there’s too much space between the nation state and the family or the small friend group. There’s a lot of room in there. So, she’s somebody I read with great enthusiasm.

I think a lot of left economic thinkers, like Aaron Benanav, have a lot of practical solutions for thinking about economic equality and how we could redistribute money. Those are very exciting to me, and I think of those as formalists, even though they would not call themselves formalists. I do think I’m still fighting with a lot of literary criticism. I don’t feel perfectly comfortable in my department or my field of Victorian studies. I love to talk to people about the materials that we have in common, but even in my department, I don’t feel like I’m teaching things that other people are teaching. I’m not teaching the ways that other people are teaching. We’re not sharing our work.

Scott Ferguson

Well, I have to say, I’m disappointed and sad to hear that from you, but I think that makes these kinds of connection or hinges really important because it’s part of maintaining and finding continuities, finding an enduring spirit that is shared across disparate realms, maybe across a bunch of lonely people. We actually have community beyond our immediate contexts.

Caroline Levine

Maybe this sounds simplistic, but I think the left is my community. That is to say, I always want to talk to leftists about everything, like strategy and theories power. How do you organize and where are you and why do you think that? That’s my intellectual community, and a very rich one. It’s not always an academic community and intellectually, it’s not even always an academic community. I’m learning things that are different from what I would learn just by being in the library.

William Saas

That might be a good place to leave it for now, but, I think, Scott and I would agree that we look forward to more conversation. I thank you for joining us on Money on the Left.

Caroline Levine

It has been such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

* Thank you to Robert Rusch for the episode graphic, Nahneen Kula for the theme tune, and Thomas Chaplin for the transcript.